edatoakrun
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Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:19 pm

The long-expected offensive against BEVs now opens, in the ongoing republican war on reason.

Trump to Undo Vehicle Rules That Curb Global Warming

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is expected to begin rolling back stringent federal regulations on vehicle pollution that contributes to global warming, according to people familiar with the matter, essentially marking a U-turn to efforts to force the American auto industry to produce more electric cars.

The announcement — which is expected as soon as Tuesday and will be made jointly by the Environmental Protection Agency administrator, Scott Pruitt, and the transportation secretary, Elaine L. Chao — will immediately start to undo one of former President Barack Obama’s most significant environmental legacies.

During the same week, and possibly on the same day, Mr. Trump is expected to direct Mr. Pruitt to begin the more lengthy and legally complex process of dismantling the Clean Power Plan, Mr. Obama’s rules to cut planet-warming pollution from coal-fired power plants.

The regulatory rollback on vehicle pollution will relax restrictions on tailpipe emissions of carbon dioxide and will not require action by Congress. It will also have a major effect on the United States auto industry.

Under the Obama administration’s vehicle fuel economy standards, American automakers were locked into nearly a decade of trying to design and build ever more sophisticated fuel-efficient vehicles, including electric and hybrid models. The nation’s largest auto companies told Mr. Trump last month that they found those technical requirements too burdensome.

The E.P.A. will also begin legal proceedings to revoke a waiver for California that was allowing the state to enforce the tougher tailpipe standards for its drivers...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/us/p ... ation.html
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:37 pm

As long as the CARB state rules, led by California, remain, the auto industry will still be forced to make EVs, albeit in smaller numbers. Let's hope it's a long, long court fight.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:22 am

There would still be Tesla, and imported EVs, even if American OEMs were to stop producing them. How long before Chinese EVs enter the US market?
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:32 pm

This will be a major setback to the industry. Has it matured enough to stand without subsidies, or will this be the death knell? I don't pretend to know.

And as much as I would love to confidently proclaim that they cannot / will not kill Tesla, that cannot be known either.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

LeftieBiker
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:39 pm

If Tesla can still match GM in price, then between that and their not being dependent on the subsidy for their other cars to sell, I think they'll do ok. If most EVs jump in selling price by $7k though, that will be a real problem.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

webeleafowners
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:25 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:This will be a major setback to the industry. Has it matured enough to stand without subsidies, or will this be the death knell? I don't pretend to know.

And as much as I would love to confidently proclaim that they cannot / will not kill Tesla, that cannot be known either.


I'm not sure I follow. The US is just one country. It might be the end or at least a dampening of EV sales in that country but it's a big world. EV's are doing reasonably well in growth of sales. The US will just drop out or fall back to 1970's technology just like with transport, eg high speed trains etc. I don't think it will have much effect on EV's in the world. If they go after Tesla at some point Germany, Holland, France or Spain will throw out the welcome mat and they'll move. Electric vehicles are here to stay. Just maybe not in the US.

If the US government lowers or gets rid of emmision controls the big three will just switch their markets to developing or third world countries that have no or low restrictions on vehicle emmisions. The US Just won't be able to sell into first world or developed countries. Kind of a sad day for Americans I suppose but the rest of the modern world will March on.
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rmay635703
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:06 pm

Hopefully the first thing they do instead of worrying about auto emissions is to repeal the gray market laws, once the gray market laws are gone and I can legally import any japanese or european car I want,
they can do whatever BS with the emissions standards, but for god sake keep the damn fuel economy requirements!

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:There would still be Tesla, and imported EVs, even if American OEMs were to stop producing them. How long before Chinese EVs enter the US market?


My dad has owned a Miles ZX40 for close to a decade, so I guess they already were here

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:56 pm

None of this should be coming as any surprise, so if it was expected to have a significant impact on Tesla you'd expect their shares would have sold off, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:17 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:This will be a major setback to the industry. Has it matured enough to stand without subsidies, or will this be the death knell? I don't pretend to know.

And as much as I would love to confidently proclaim that they cannot / will not kill Tesla, that cannot be known either.


I'm not sure I follow. The US is just one country. It might be the end or at least a dampening of EV sales in that country but it's a big world. EV's are doing reasonably well in growth of sales. The US will just drop out or fall back to 1970's technology just like with transport, eg high speed trains etc. I don't think it will have much effect on EV's in the world. If they go after Tesla at some point Germany, Holland, France or Spain will throw out the welcome mat and they'll move. Electric vehicles are here to stay. Just maybe not in the US.

If the US government lowers or gets rid of emmision controls the big three will just switch their markets to developing or third world countries that have no or low restrictions on vehicle emmisions. The US Just won't be able to sell into first world or developed countries. Kind of a sad day for Americans I suppose but the rest of the modern world will March on.


Yup. I realized as soon as I submitted that comment that it was overly dramatic. Still, as an american myself, it severely delays my desire to eventually go 100% electric.

But you're right. Other countries will push on. Europe. Asia. The US will be left in the dust.

Trump's environmental policies could cause a huge step backwards in local air quality, and I think that's a valid concern. But world wide, most people see the imminent danger in proceeding with the status quo.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

alozzy
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:23 pm

In Vancouver (Canada), used EVs like the Leaf are a no brainer, particularly in light of our federal government having mandated carbon pricing nation wide.

As of today, we pay $5 CA per US gallon for gas. My ICE car (2004 Hyundai Santa Fe) gets 20 mpg on a good day. So, 4 gallons of gas at a cost of $20 would give me the same range as my Leaf, but I pay about $2 to charge the Leaf (20 kWh @ $0.11/kWh) - 1/10th the cost of gas!

And yet, so many Vancouver residents are convinced that an EV can't meet their needs. I'm still hopeful that there is a rising tide though...

It's not just in Canada that there's a very compelling financial reason to abandon ICE cars for good. In fact, the US is the exception rather than the rule.

Eventually, when the true costs of the environmental and health consequences of ICE vehicles comes to roost, US citizens will demand change.

In other words, it's easy to blame government, but, as evidence by the fact that only a small percentage of Vancouver residents drive EVs, real change only occurs when ordinary people "see the light" and switch to EVs because it's in their financial best interest AND it's the right thing to do for the environment.

Trump is a populist at heart, he loses his power base when his ideology becomes massively unpopular. As early adopters, the more we evangelize, the more likely mass adoption will happen.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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