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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:54 am

Even manufacturers in the environmentally progressive China are lobbying to have mandates relaxed.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-may ... 26861.html

Automakers and industry bodies have said the targets are too tough and could hurt manufacturers' interests.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
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edatoakrun
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:55 am

Trump expected to announce vehicle emissions rules review

U.S. President Donald Trump is expected announce a restart of a review of vehicle fuel efficiency rules sought by the auto industry at an event on Wednesday with the chief executives of U.S. automakers, according to two sources briefed on the matter.

Trump is expected to visit Ypsilanti, Michigan, a Detroit suburb, to tout his administration's decision to revive a review of the feasibility of the 2022 through 2025 vehicle emissions rules, after the Obama administration moved in its final days to lock in the rules...

Trade groups representing automakers, including GM, Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) and Toyota Motor Corp, have asked the EPA to withdraw the determination finalizing the rules, which stem from a 2011 deal the industry reached with the U.S. government.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN16K1L5

Report on attacks on State incentive programs below:

Behind the Quiet State-by-State Fight Over Electric Vehicles

...Today, the economic incentives that have helped electric vehicles gain a toehold in America are under attack, state by state. In some states, there is a move to repeal tax credits for battery-powered vehicles or to let them expire. And in at least nine states, including liberal-leaning ones like Illinois and conservative-leaning ones like Indiana, lawmakers have introduced bills that would levy new fees on those who own electric cars.

The state actions could put the business of electric vehicles, already rocky, on even more precarious footing. That is particularly true as gas prices stay low, and as the Trump administration appears set to give the nascent market much less of a hand...

In coming days, the Trump administration is widely expected to roll back stringent federal regulations on vehicle emissions, one of the biggest environmental legacies of President Barack Obama. The changes would give American carmakers less incentive to produce more battery-powered cars. There are also concerns among advocates of electric cars over the fate of a $7,500 federal tax credit on the vehicles, a major catalyst for sales.

But while the battle in Washington gets much of the attention, the most direct attack against electric vehicles, and in some cases hybrid vehicles, is quietly being waged at the state level....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/11/busi ... edits.html
no condition is permanent

Durandal
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:15 pm

powersurge wrote:We are naïve to think that we are saving the environment with our Leafs... Do you think that even 1/2 million EVs on the road is going to stop polar ice from thawing?? NO. The true enemy of the environment are the developing third world countries that are becoming more affluent, like China, India, Korea, and many other small countries. Their population is wanting a piece of the American Pie - - Every driveway has a car. PLUS there are no environmental laws in these countries. So for every Leaf we buy, there are 100 new cars that are being driven in these countries.


I'm less concerned about whether or not it emits CO2, and just eliminates the use of oil. The grid can be greened after the fact, and it's continually getting greener. I was honestly hoping for the beginnings of peak oil by now to force the hand of the market through increased pricing, which would make electric vehicles more attractive from a financial perspective faster than they are now, but we will get there. As is, even with gasoline at $2/gal, I still save money by driving my Leaf versus driving a gasoline powered car. Assuming my Leaf lives for 6 years, it will pay for itself in fuel savings even if gasoline stays at $2/gal. I suspect we will see it go back up to $3/gal in the near future, reducing the payback window.

I think that over the next 5-10 years the economics of electric vehicles will outweigh gasoline vehicles by a factor large enough to convince greater numbers of people to make the switch, all environmental reasons aside.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:10 pm

The true enemy of the environment are the developing third world countries that are becoming more affluent, like China, India, Korea, and many other small countries. Their population is wanting a piece of the American Pie - - Every driveway has a car. PLUS there are no environmental laws in these countries.


That would make the "true enemy of the environment" the US and other Western countries who are setting the global standards for what constitutes affluence. China, BTW, is getting way ahead of us in EV usage.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

rmay635703
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:28 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
The true enemy of the environment are the developing third world countries that are becoming more affluent, like China, India, Korea, and many other small countries. Their population is wanting a piece of the American Pie - - Every driveway has a car. PLUS there are no environmental laws in these countries.


That would make the "true enemy of the environment" the US and other Western countries who are setting the global standards for what constitutes affluence. China, BTW, is getting way ahead of us in EV usage.


Yep, wasting energy is the enemy of the environment, driving cars at all is the enemy of the environment.

At some point both will become increasingly impossible and we might get motivated enough to do things truly sustainably, which means no tractors, no big chem and less but longer lasting tech.

DanCar
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:02 am

LeftieBiker wrote:...China, BTW, is getting way ahead of us in EV usage.
China has always been way ahead in terms of EV usage. Past 10 years, they have millions of electric bicycles, the primary form of transportation in many major cities.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:20 pm

China has always been way ahead in terms of EV usage. Past 10 years, they have millions of electric bicycles, the primary form of transportation in many major cities.


True, although the quality of most of those bicycles is very lacking. I was referring to China pulling ahead of us in the EV automotive market.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

edatoakrun
Posts: 4704
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Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:54 am

Back on-topic:

Trump won't seek to roll back California vehicle authority

WASHINGTON -- President Donald Trump will announce the EPA will revive a review of the feasibility of strict fuel efficiency standards through 2025, but will not seek to withdraw California's authority to set its own vehicle rules, a White House official said late on Tuesday.

Reuters reported on Monday the administration planned to announce the review on Wednesday as Trump heads to Michigan, home of the U.S. auto industry.

A White House official briefing reporters said the Trump administration will spend the next year working on the review to determine if the 2022-25 model-year rules are feasible. The administration has made no decisions on how or if the standards should be revised.

But the Trump administration is not picking an immediate fight with California, which has long drawn the ire of automakers for setting more aggressive environmental vehicle rules, including requiring zero-emission cars....

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017031 ... 19911/1221
no condition is permanent

powersurge
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Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:35 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Powersurge is making the argument that just - by coincidence, of course! - requires him to do nothing he does not wish to do. Nice work, if you can get it. He is correct about oil in power plants, but Canadian fuel oil is still a bit better than coal - Alberta tar sands oil excepted. We can all be nihilistic and re-embrace fossil fuels, but that guarantees that things will get worse, fast.

Coal jobs are not coming back: they were lost more to automation than to market forces.


I think that increasing coal production and coal-related jobs will not necessarily hurt the environment. I have a link below of the breakdown of fuel sources used in electricity production... Coal use is 1/3 of our electricity, and Natural Gas is 1/3 = 66%. Natural gas fracking can devastate the environment. So increased coal use will decrease the use of Natural Gas, which is in every naturalist's mind -- Natural Gas is the greater of two evils. Like it or not, until we all go solar, coal will continue to be used for electricity production for the next 50-100 years.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

And Leftiebiker, don't accuse anyone of not doing things because they are lazy.... I don't see you or anyone in America that will boycott electricity because it is made by coal. You just like to "overpower" (LOL) other people's opinions....

VitaminJ
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:44 am

A man who lives in a place full of concrete and steel mountains can't see the harm in removing actual mountains. According to the American Lung Association, coal is responsible for 12,000 deaths in the US each year due to respiratory issues directly from coal burning. For reference, that's about the same amount of people who die from gun homicide each year in the US.

As you say, fracking is bad for the environment as well. The actual act of fracking the Earth thousands of feet underground is greatly shrouded in misinformation, lies, deception, and trade secrets. But even if we forget about what happens underground and just look at the surface, fracking is horrible. There are spills of fracking fluid, wastewater, diesel fuel, hydraulic fluid every single day at thousands of fracking sites in the US. The same types of "collateral damage" happen in coal mines. The act of burning these fuels is many many times cleaner than actually getting it out of the ground.

Of course the ultimate answer is nuclear energy end of story.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED
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