GRA
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Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2030

Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:31 pm

Via GCC: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/10/20171023-c40.html

The mayors of London, Paris, Los Angeles, Copenhagen, Barcelona, Quito, Vancouver, Mexico City, Milan, Seattle, Auckland and Cape Town have pledged to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025 and ensure that a major area of their city is zero emission by 2030.

The signatories of the C40 Fossil-Fuel-Free Streets Declaration “envision a future where walking, cycling, and shared transport are how the majority of citizens move around our cities.” The cities therefore commit to:

    Increase rates of walking, cycling and the use of public and shared transport.

    Reduce the number of polluting vehicles on city streets.

    Lead by example by procuring zero emission vehicles for city fleets.

    Collaborate with suppliers, fleet operators and businesses to accelerate the shift to zero emissions vehicles and reduce vehicle miles in cities.

In London, the new T-Charge toll on the most polluting vehicles (pre-Euro 4 / IV) went into effect today. (Earlier post. . . .)
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RegGuheert
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:26 pm

That's great to hear! Diesel buses have been polluting city streets the world over for far too long.
RegGuheert
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SageBrush
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:35 pm

I've learned to be skeptical of far in the future statements.
Not only do they not actually require anything from the politicians today, they are easily forgotten by the winners of the next election.

Show me a plan that starts from ~ today and I'll be keenly interested.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:26 pm

SageBrush wrote:I've learned to be skeptical of far in the future statements.
...

Heard a great line tonight, "It isn't future yet!"

The interesting thing to me is whether EV buses have higher or lower TCO than diesel buses. If they truly are lower mandates are probably unnecessary. This isn't like convincing an emotional retail buyer they really aren't ever going to take that spur of the moment cross country road trip towing a 26 foot boat, these buying decisions are made by bottom line types.
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:19 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I've learned to be skeptical of far in the future statements.
...

Heard a great line tonight, "It isn't future yet!"

The interesting thing to me is whether EV buses have higher or lower TCO than diesel buses. If they truly are lower mandates are probably unnecessary. This isn't like convincing an emotional retail buyer they really aren't ever going to take that spur of the moment cross country road trip towing a 26 foot boat, these buying decisions are made by bottom line types.

I'll guess the answer is similar to passenger cars: Yes, if matched with PV
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:51 pm

I think that in this case "TCO" is "total cost of ownership" and not an environmental rating. I could be mistaken, but the context suggests that I'm not. The point being that a lower TCO will win sales from entities who have little or no interest in environmental impact.
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SageBrush
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:06 pm

My answer was also given in the context of money
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:29 am

LeftieBiker wrote:I think that in this case "TCO" is "total cost of ownership" and not an environmental rating. I could be mistaken, but the context suggests that I'm not. The point being that a lower TCO will win sales from entities who have little or no interest in environmental impact.

The place I've seen firsthand where these buses are being used (Park City) they are all about the environment at least in their minds. While the purchases were heavily subsidized with grants and whatnot I have been wondering how the transit department there would see the bottom line working out even if those subsidies and tree-hugging mentality weren't there. Saving $1200/day on fuel on just one of the routes is significant. I'd think 10 cents/kWh coal by wire is roughly equivalent to solar, maybe even without subsidies. So many subsidies on things these days it's hard to tell what is or isn't a good choice economically. Since the vehicles have only been in service six months it may be too soon to get the full picture. Transit buses are probably hard on trannies and brakes although you wouldn't think as bad as garbage trucks; who knows it may come down to items like that.
LTL
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:01 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I'd think 10 cents/kWh coal by wire is roughly equivalent to solar

My home PV works out to about 2.5 cents a kWh. This works out to be ~ 10% of the cost of diesel per mile.
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RegGuheert
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Re: Mayors of 12 major cities pledge to procure only zero-emission buses from 2025; major areas to be zero-emission by 2

Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:26 am

SageBrush wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:I'd think 10 cents/kWh coal by wire is roughly equivalent to solar

My home PV works out to about 2.5 cents a kWh. This works out to be ~ 10% of the cost of diesel per mile.
That's with the magic of net metering. In other words, 2.5 cents/kWh is not the total cost for providing the electricity you use when you use it. If the bulk of the charging for transit buses is done at night, then there will need to be additional costs incurred to shift the availability of the electricity. That cost is not at all insignificant. In fact, for my family's consumption, the cost of adding enough batteries to ensure 100% self-consumption is astronomical.

As we move toward electrifying transportation, it will be important to come up with ways to move away from charging primarily at nighttime and toward charging primarily during the daytime. My idea to enable this is what I call "BEV Net Metering".
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Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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