SageBrush
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Fri May 25, 2018 12:15 am

DarthPuppy wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Let the two parties involved work it out: the car buyer and the manufacturer.
The government's job is to protect air quality.


No, the government's job is to protect victims.

You make me laugh.

The polluter as the "victim."
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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IssacZachary
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 1:55 am

Man. I wonder what I would do in a situation like this!

I have a diesel and an electric. But the Leaf no longer goes where I need to go. It's an expensive lawn ornament that I'm having a hard time selling. If I had to give up my diesel then I'd be up a creek without a paddle! So basically I'd have to travel 140 or more miles each day by bicycle in weather that regularly reaches -40°F (-40°C) each winter over mountain passes that would require me to ascend and descend some 10,000ft (about 3,000m) per trip because 1) there is no public transportation, 2) there is no EV charging infrastructure and 3) I don't have enough money right now to buy a newer gasoline powered car because of my poor investment in the Leaf.

On the other hand why can't technology fix this?! My diesel is over 30 years old and gets 55mpg! Why don't newer gasoline cars get that kind of mileage? Maybe a new Prius would, but that's about it. Gasoline just jumped some 50 cents in the past couple months and regular unleaded is now over $3 per gallon! Not too long ago and even premium was less than $3. The fuel costs of gasoline cars kind of hinders me from buying a newer gasoline car since I have so far to drive.

And are gasoline emissions really that much better? Try smelling the air after a brand new gasoline car goes by around here. FIrst, in the bitter cold gasoline engines run rich and their catalytic converters don't do anything for quite a while as the engine warms up. Second, with all these mountains you get a terrible smell following any gasoline car up any hill since they have to go into high load enrichment at which point the catalyitc converter is doing nothing. Which is worse? Unburned hydrocarbons and CO from gasoline or NOx from diesel? I'd be willing to bet that the gasoline cars around here don't get near the emissions they are supposed to because of the temperature and terrain.

I guess the only solution is to buy a CNG car. Too bad they don't make any anymore. You got to love the idea of buying a $5,000 fuel tank every 15 years. At least that's not as expensive as a $8,500 battery! But then there's fracking! Oh no! Now we're back to a bad option again. Maybe riding my bike hundreds of miles per day is the only good option. We'll there goes my marriage!

I'd dump my diesel right now if I could get a decent gasoline car with payments of $100 or less per month that got at least 50mpg, or one with $200 payments if I could sell my Leaf for at least half of what I bought it for a year and a half ago.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

SageBrush
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 11:26 am

IssacZachary wrote:... and gets 55mpg! Why don't newer gasoline cars get that kind of mileage? Maybe a new Prius would, but that's about it.

An older Prius, too. That is your best choice.

I'm curious, would you be able to move your LEAF to Durango ?
I might be able to help you sell it there.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 12:11 pm

Which is worse? Unburned hydrocarbons and CO from gasoline or NOx from diesel?


The NOx is much worse. We have evolved to deal with the former, but not the latter. IIRC you can lower your NOx emissions by using biodiesel.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Nubo
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 1:33 pm

IssacZachary wrote:So basically I'd have to travel 140 or more miles each day by bicycle in weather that regularly reaches -40°F (-40°C) each winter over mountain passes that would require me to ascend and descend some 10,000ft (about 3,000m) per trip ... Maybe riding my bike hundreds of miles per day is the only good option. We'll there goes my marriage!


It sounds as if you actually view this as an option. If so, hats-off to you!
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DarthPuppy
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 1:50 pm

IssacZachary wrote:I'd dump my diesel right now if I could get a decent gasoline car with payments of $100 or less per month that got at least 50mpg, or one with $200 payments if I could sell my Leaf for at least half of what I bought it for a year and a half ago.


I appreciate your concerns. if 'dump my diesel' means sell it, then you really haven't accomplished much. The buyer would be buying to use it, so there is no real gain in terms of helping the environment other than to send the automakers a message when you buy a new environmentally friendly option. To get it off the road and stop the pollution would truly require killing it. From the rest of your post, I'm guessing that is not financially an option. If you only financially viable option is to sell it, then you might be better keeping it until you can afford to make a complete switch. As someone who appreciates the environmental impact, you would minimize your use for only those trips that are beyond the Leaf range and maximize your Leaf usage. This is likely better than any buyer of the diesel would do.
'13 Leaf SL
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IssacZachary
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 5:36 pm

SageBrush wrote:An older Prius, too. That is your best choice.

I've been looking up Prius information as the Prius seems like a logical choice. The 2013 and newer Mitsubishi Mirage also has my attention. The April 2018 Consumer Reports magazine seems to highly recommend any Prius. I was thinking of a perhaps getting a used Prius C. The one thing that scares me is that I've seen three Prius around here for sale, all with dead traction batteries. It makes me wonder if the cold here in Gunnison damages NiMH batteries. I feel I need to research some more.

SageBrush wrote:I'm curious, would you be able to move your LEAF to Durango ?
I might be able to help you sell it there.

I believe I could drive it there. I could make it to Montrose, then to Ouray, then to Silverton, then Durango. As long as I was able to charge to 100% at most of those areas I'd be able to drive it. Or I could get my brother to tow me. Either way, the problem would be finding time. But I do want to work on getting the right car for us this summer, and although both my wife and I like the Leaf, I do think I need to get rid of it to make that move.

LeftieBiker wrote: The NOx is much worse. We have evolved to deal with the former, but not the latter. IIRC you can lower your NOx emissions by using biodiesel.

Yes, but biodiesel also doesn't work in freezing weather. And I do live in about the coldest place in Colorado. Plus there's nowhere in around here to buy biodiesel that I know of, other than making my own from used veggie oil from restaurants. I've also considered water injection, emulsified fuel, CNG conversion, and even making a device that would strain out all the nitrogen from the air. But I don't think I have time for science projects right now.

Nubo wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:So basically I'd have to travel 140 or more miles each day by bicycle...


It sounds as if you actually view this as an option. If so, hats-off to you!

Ya, when I was single I only had a bicycle. I went everywhere on that. Things change when you have a family though. I basically got my first petrol powered vehicle just a few weeks before getting married. Interestingly my wife never had owned a car before we got married either. But she was into public transportation, not bicycling.

DarthPuppy wrote:To get it off the road and stop the pollution would truly require killing it.

That's another thing about the diesel. This diesel car is immortal. I've owned over 20 cars in my lifetime and have never seen a car as reliable as this diesel. It's got at least 500,000 miles on it and still starts, even in subzero weather. We've tried replacing it with some other used gasoline cars with far fewer miles but those kept breaking down and we kept coming back to our backup diesel. For an example, I once got a 2003 Chevy for $1,000 with front end damage. I got the damage fixed, replacing the entire front clip, stabilizer bar and a whole lot more, but kept having a terrible misfire problem. I replaced the ignition system, the injection system, the ECU, all the sensors and the car still had a horrible problem. There were several times that we went to go somewhere in the Chevy and then had to come back and get the VW diesel.

I gave up and ended up trading that Chevy for $700 as part of the down payment on the Leaf. That was a lot more than the $400 I was originally offered. And I was so happy with the Leaf. Like the diesel, it doesn't hardly need any maintenance or repairs, just simple things like a new battery and new windshield wipers. But now I need to drive further than what the Leaf can drive. So I'm back to the diesel again.

I'll probably just keep the diesel as a backup. Nobody is going to give me anything more than $500 for this car, if that. And I'm somewhat skeptical about the reliability of newer gasoline cars, so having a backup would be nice.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
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DarthPuppy
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 5:50 pm

Well it sounds like keeping it as a backup is a good plan. Anyone else who buys it would likely use it more than you will. At least this plan will minimize the usage.

And I hear you about the durability. A long time ago before I became more aware of the environmental issues, I had a diesel. They are very efficient, durable and require little maintenance. They definitely are very appealing until you know the downsides for air quality.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

SageBrush
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Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 6:40 pm

IssacZachary wrote:
SageBrush wrote:An older Prius, too. That is your best choice.

I've been looking up Prius information as the Prius seems like a logical choice. The 2013 and newer Mitsubishi Mirage also has my attention. The April 2018 Consumer Reports magazine seems to highly recommend any Prius. I was thinking of a perhaps getting a used Prius C. The one thing that scares me is that I've seen three Prius around here for sale, all with dead traction batteries. It makes me wonder if the cold here in Gunnison damages NiMH batteries. I feel I need to research some more.

Cold is fine for batteries, but your story of dead Prius is interesting. I don't know the answer. Perhaps these are cars bought used with battery refurbs ?
It might be an opportunity for you though: buy one dirt cheap and self-install a new battery. Don't waste your money on refurbished; buy new for about $2000.

I'm thinking about putting my LEAF up for sale since a Tesla is coming in the next month or two and my wife prefers that we keep our Prius Prime. My little town has no LEAF market but I think Durango does and it is only 45 miles away. I'll let you know how we fare, and I don't mind letting you park your LEAF at my home for a month if you want to try the Durango market.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: ABG: German cities can ban older diesel cars immediately Hamburg will start enforcing new rules by the end of the mo

Mon May 28, 2018 10:12 pm

Gen II Prius packs tend to last roughly 10 years. Some do last longer, but it's common for them to fail after 10 years. It costs a couple of thousand to have a refurbished one installed, IIRC. I think the Gen III packs are likely to last longer, but have no hard numbers for you.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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