SageBrush
Posts: 2843
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:00 am


They most certainly are, when GDP growth is taken into account. The nice reduction in most states was due to NG replacing coal. CA has already completed that step and the ongoing reductions are from penetration of clean energy.

You should also read the CA legislation mandating the transition to clean energy.
No other state comes close.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2843
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:01 am

GRA wrote:If there's one thing that virtually all Californians get mad about, it's oil spills off our coasts.

Only 70% oppose off-shore drilling. Since about 30% of the popular vote is Repub in CA, the numbers add up.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:54 am

SageBrush wrote:You should also read the CA legislation mandating the transition to clean energy.
CA legislators have been writing laws to legislate emissions for decades. Yet vehicular emissions in CA continue to rise.

Why? A perfect example of why this happens is the massive waste being done by the California legislators deploying hydrogen fuel cells for transportation purposed. Simply put, you cannot reduce emissions by increasing emissions.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:16 am

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:If there's one thing that virtually all Californians get mad about, it's oil spills off our coasts.
Only 70% oppose off-shore drilling. Since about 30% of the popular vote is Repub in CA, the numbers add up.
Approximately 1% of those 70% drive electric vehicles and produce the electricity to propel their vehicles using photovoltaics on their roofs. Good on them: they are living their convictions (mostly). The rest, like GRA, refuse to purchase an electric vehicle and photovoltaics and then purchase gasoline or diesel fuel to propel their vehicles. Every time they board an airplane, the same thing applies. Every time they cook/heat water/heat their homes with natural gas or propane, the same thing applies. In fact, any time they purchase ANY goods that are transported using fossil fuels, the same thing applies. That gasoline/diesel/jet fuel/natural gas has to come from somewhere.

If they REALLY oppose oil wells offshore (or onshore) of CA, they should stop using fossil fuels altogether. I have little patience for those who say they oppose something, yet refuse to take the steps to reduce their consumption of it. IME, most of those same people are some of the most wasteful people I know.

It seems that 30% of Californians understand that fossil fuels are currently necessary for their way of life and that it HAS to come from somewhere for the time being.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

iPlug
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:05 am

Per EIA (2015) California has the 3rd lowest per capita energy-related CO2 emissions per state (figure 2)

https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/state/analysis/


The disconnect between what people claim they support and what they actually do in their lives is an interesting one.

We should vote and support environmental public policies, but at the individual level the contribution here to change is miniscule.

Yet at the personal level, there is much that can be done - the type of vehicle one drives, the energy sources used to heat/cool ones home, air travel, cruises, diet...

No one is perfect, but probably a good idea to strive for better.
Last edited by iPlug on Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (16 MWh/yr actual production), Clipper Creek Level-2 7.7 kW charging stations x2, 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater

SageBrush
Posts: 2843
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:15 am

RegGuheert wrote:
SageBrush wrote:You should also read the CA legislation mandating the transition to clean energy.
CA legislators have been writing laws to legislate emissions for decades. Yet vehicular emissions in CA continue to rise.

Why?
Because the drop in emissions per vehicle is to a large degree offset by more miles driven per capita and a lot more people. Just judging by photos, air quality in the Los Angeles basin has improved a lot since I visited there in the 1970s.
California is definitely heading in the right direction;most of the the rest of country is still mired in AGW denialism and Republican stupidity.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:44 am

SageBrush wrote:Because the drop in emissions per vehicle is to a large degree offset by more miles driven per capita and a lot more people.
California's population trends are virtually indistinguishable from those for the United States (except during the last few years in which California is growing more slowly than the rest of the country).

It seems that Californians consistently imagine themselves more virtuous than the rest of the country, but your claims are simply not borne out by the facts.

SageBrush
Posts: 2843
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:55 am

^^
"California boosted economic activity 19 percent per Btu of energy consumed between 2010 and 2015, to $3.29 in GDP for every 10,000 Btu of energy used, compared with $1.75 for the rest of the United States.
"
Taken from a post on a Tesla forum. We can track down the source if you doubt the numbers.

Regarding Electricity generation, CA averages 32% of IOU generation from sustainable clean energy.
Go ahead, compare that to VA, itself the outsized beneficiary of Wind/PV generation from Apple/Google/Facebook/Cisco etc -- you know, those CA companies with their pesky pseudo- environmentalism as you would label it.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:08 pm

SageBrush wrote:^^
"California boosted economic activity 19 percent per Btu of energy consumed between 2010 and 2015, to $3.29 in GDP for every 10,000 Btu of energy used, compared with $1.75 for the rest of the United States."
First off, that data in no way is related to the your claim that CA's population is growing faster than the rest of the country which I refuted above.

On top of that, the United States boosted economic activity per BTU faster than California over that same period. Here are the numbers:

US GDP:
2010: $14,964.37B
2015: $18,120.71B

Percent increase in US GDP = 21.1%

US Energy Consumption:
2010: 2235.6 MTOE
2015: 2227.0 MTOE

Percent decrease in US primary energy consumption = 0.4%

In other words, the US increased economic activity per BTU by 21.5% between 2010 and 2015 while CA only increased 19 percent over the same period.

The reason that CA's absolute energy intensity is lower than that of the US as a whole is because information technology and semiconductor technology give a higher return per unit of energy than most other industries. Nothing more.

The bottom line remains: CA is reducing emissions more slowly than the US as a whole. This fact is true even though CA is now growing more slowly and is partly because CA is unable to reduce the energy intensity of their industries as fast as the rest of the US.

It's funny how CA pats itself on its back about its improvement in emissions and it fails to realize they are lagging the rest of the country. What CA excels at is spending massive amounts of the taxpayers money and getting virtually nothing for it. That is why there is a mass exodus going on from CA right now. This new legislation is sure to accelerate that exodus.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
Posts: 9401
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Gov. Brown signs bills to block Trump's offshore oil drilling plan

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:07 pm

SageBrush wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Do you only eat organic, fair trade chocolate, Reg?
No, but that doesn't make me a hypocrite.

The point is that the gasoline that Californians burn to drive their cars has to come from *somewhere*, as does the electricity, the water, etc. that they use. Eventually something's gotta give.


Welcome to NIMBY: Oil spills in AK, tar sands from Canada -- acceptable
Oil spills off California -- not so much.

Even so,
I read the other day that CA is approaching 10% of new cars being hybrid or better.
How is VA doing ?

By the way, the two important events in California that germinated popular environmentalism in that state was LA smog and a large oil spill off the coast (Long Beach, IIRC.)

Santa Barbara, as noted. Also the freeway revolt (S.F.) fed into it peripherally, and the Save San Francisco Bay Association (now just 'Save the Bay') the Bay played a large regional role in the Bay Area, among numerous others: https://www.savesfbay.org/history and http://www.bcdc.ca.gov/history.html

Statewide, though, it was the Santa Barbara blowout that gave the major jolt to the environmental movement per se.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Environmental Issues”