SageBrush
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:27 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:If someone can't afford to feed their kids or keep up with the electricity bill who really think these people really are wanting to spend more to get electricity from solar panels?

You are still struggling with arithmetic.
The electricity from a PV panel at home is MUCH cheaper than from the utility.

Isn't that what you keep telling us, Trumper ? That you only buy the least expensive out of pocket option, externalized costs be damned ?

---
Or did you mean that people like you want the cheapest grid electricity, externalized costs be damned ? I have already told you to look at a PNM bill to get a clue.

Another hint for you, Trumper: read the PNM IRP and compare it to the NM clean energy legislation you are fear mongering about. The IRP pre-dates the NM legislation by at least a year and prioritizes least cost fuels.
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RonDawg
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:09 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:Nope, you just call everything you don't agree with bs even after you are proven completely wrong. You really should be working in politics.


Save yourself the trouble of trying to prove him wrong and just add him to your "Foe" list. It's like arguing with a rock, except rocks don't go around insulting you.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:17 pm

It would indeed be nice if there were more civil refutation and less uncivil refutation.
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Oilpan4
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:10 am

Over all this is probably good for me.
I plan to make like al gore and profit off this.

Can anyone show me anywhere that has gone from the normal mix of power sources like we have in the US, switched over to mostly wind and sun and had their electricity rates lowered or stay about the same?

If solar power is essentially free then there should be tons of success stories of solar replacing fossil fuels and making electricity cheaper, right?

Those who resort to name calling know they are wrong and is conformation that they are completely fos and have nothing intelligent to offer.
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SageBrush
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:55 am

Oilpan4 wrote:Can anyone show me anywhere that has gone from the normal mix of power sources like we have in the US, switched over to mostly wind and sun and had their electricity rates lowered or stay about the same?

Of course. I keep telling you to look at your PNM bill and to read the PNM IRP.
You do neither, and instead spout BS and FUD.

I tell you to learn about your NM wind resource, and in reply you quote a single day from California -- itself a refutation of your earlier BS that wind+solar only cover 8 hours of energy use a day.

---
Reference NM wind data or STFU.
Reference West Texas wind data* or STFU
Reference the PNM IRP or STFU
Reference the PNM consumer bill or STFU

*Why ? Because Eastern NM and West Texas are linked. I leave it to you to understand the ways that it matters to your ignorant thread.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:14 pm

Sagebrush, please omit the insults. No one has used language like that against you, AFAIK.
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SageBrush
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:48 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Sagebrush, please omit the insults. No one has used language like that against you, AFAIK.

I give oil-y the benefit of the doubt -- that he spouts FUD from a well of ignorance rather than being an outright liar and/or a troll.

Following is one example, but no more will follow because I refuse to legitimize his rubbish with detailed responses. I will simply call out his rubbish for what it is and challenge him to back it up with data.

He has posted in this thread:
Wind and sun only work really well for about 8 hours a day.

NM has a little better wind utilization, but not drastically different. Our wind can last until 6 or 7pm most evenings.

Wind and Solar will work together well in NM until about 9pm when both go 0.


Now lets try some actual facts, backed up by references:
https://wind.willyweather.com/nm/curry- ... lovis.html
[https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/49218.pdf](https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/49218.pdf)

[http://mis.ercot.com/misapp/GetReports.do?reportTypeId=13424&reportTitle=Hourly Aggregated Wind Output&showHTMLView=&mimicKey](http://mis.ercot.com/misapp/GetReports. ... =&mimicKey)

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1asOrVS8lxvoN1wIuNwohlBmXYhT9jtLizlrdmNz2gCs/edit#gid=2105138713]

ERCOT is the Texas grid, and it reports Utility wind stats by the hour. Most of the wind is from West Texas which is geographically an extension of Eastern NM, the major wind resource of NM. Below is a graph of the wind production through 2017 aggregated and averaged for each hour of the year. The google doc above has the raw data.

Image
Last edited by SageBrush on Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:50 pm

I'm definitely not suggesting that you not correct mistakes or misinformation - just that you do so in a more neutral tone. The corrections themselves are very welcome.
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GRA
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:56 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:It would indeed be nice if there were more civil refutation and less uncivil refutation.

Seeing as how you're a moderator and are presumably responsible for enforcing the terms of service, rather than it being nice, isn't it your job to see that's the case? I report such behavior regularly, but don't see anything done about it, nor does anyone get back to me even though I request it. In the past, mods would warn and if necessary ban someone either for a period of time or permanently who regularly acted in such fashion, but now they don't. I don't know if that's because the site owners are worried that it will drive their traffic count down and thus their ad revenues or what, but I suspect as many people or more are driven away from the site because of the lack of civility enforcement as are those who are encouraged by it to post.

As you apparently fall into the same camp as I do, but you actually have the power to do something about it, why aren't you? And if you lack the power, who does have the power, and how should those of us who find this type of behavior unacceptable report it to them, since flagging messages seems to have no effect whatsoever?
Last edited by GRA on Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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GRA
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Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:14 pm

Back on topic, does anyone have a source for NM wind generation curves? While I've had no trouble finding the names, capacities and total annual production of NM wind farms, I've been unable to find any data such as is available for California for hourly production/resources. Per Wiki, NM has enormous wind potential:
A 2010 study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory showed that New Mexico has the potential to install up to 492,083 MW of wind power nameplate capacity, generating 1,644,970 GWh annually.[6][7] For comparison, New Mexico consumed 23,060 GWh of electricity in 2016, and 20,639 GWh in 2005.[8][9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_New_Mexico#Installed_capacity_and_wind_resources

The question is when does it blow, how much storage (or importation) would be required, and the cost of same, compared to say CSP with storage or any of the other (renewable or otherwise) options, and with externalities included for all. So, for instance, renewable electricity might be more expensive, but health care savings due to reduced pollution might offset that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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