Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:31 am

GRA wrote:Back on topic, does anyone have a source for NM wind generation curves? While I've had no trouble finding the names, capacities and total annual production of NM wind farms, I've been unable to find any data such as is available for.....

Most wind farms really don't like to share their detailed data. They didn't like the idea that I was taking notes on their production trends straight off the trended data.
I was a visiting student, not like they could fire me.
Sage brush posted weather reports that show wind speed throughout the day here. Those weather reports precisely detail what I said happens here.

A typical non-GE wind turbine like the ones I was around/inside of they start turning at 4 or 5 mph of wind speed then start production at about 7 or 8 mph but this is only around 40kw. Then by 30 to 36mph they are at full power, most of the turbines around here are 1 to 2Mw.
In standby mode they draw 5 to 7kw.

Plus I don't know what the big deal is over wind power. It's economical, In most areas I don't believe it increases rates by any notable amount. If I was approached by a wind power company that wanted to build wind turbines on my land I would have them.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:40 am

SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:We don't need tresamigas.

The proposed DCHV line was never about NM per se, but a proposal to link the wind resources in West Texas and Eastern NM with the
California market.

It will happen because it makes a LOT of sense, saves money, and allows the clean energy economy to blossom. We just have to get rid of the monkeys in the White House.

I was unaware trump was president in 2014-2015 when tresamigas progress stalled.
I would love for NM to sell wind power to California if they are unwilling to build their own wind farms.
But most of NM and California are on the same power grid, all we needed was additional high voltage AC capacity to get it to them. Fancy overpriced transmission lines not needed.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:42 am

SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:Do you know how I can pull the trend data off their closed scata system with out working there at the wind farm?

No, but the wind resource data itself is available. Since you refuse to reference data to back up your drivel I posted ERCOT and NM wind data (in the NREL link) in an earlier post to show just how wrong your statements are.

I posted the weather link to give you an idea how to collect data but other sources are available.

Go ahead -- look at the 2017 ERCOT wind generation graph posted in this thread. What is the range of average hourly capacity factor through the night ?
When during the 24 hour cycle is the nadir ?

This is the graph. Do you understand it ?

Image

Easy.
That graph doesn't count wind turbines that are in shutdown mode as "capacity".
Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.
I was looking at actual power generation.
Not bean counter capacity factor number fluffing.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:18 am

More good news, nm customers are going to be on the hook for the shutdown of the coal fired plant in Farmington.
https://apnews.com/58c8b81fa2a347748ff77db2534c2f69.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

SageBrush
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:58 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.

Wrong on both counts.

Read the ERCOT website instead of posting more BS
Last edited by SageBrush on Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:59 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:More good news, nm customers are going to be on the hook for the shutdown of the coal fired plant in Farmington.

More accurately, they remain on the hook, but this way they get cheaper, clean energy.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 2868
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:10 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:That graph doesn't count wind turbines that are in shutdown mode as "capacity".
Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.
I was looking at actual power generation.
Not bean counter capacity factor number fluffing.


Source please.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

SageBrush
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:44 pm

WetEV wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:That graph doesn't count wind turbines that are in shutdown mode as "capacity".
Most of them go into shutdown mode at night.
I was looking at actual power generation.
Not bean counter capacity factor number fluffing.


Source please.

Good luck :lol:

He does not understand that the ERCOT data is actual generation divided by nameplate.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 10330
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:01 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote: IIRR they were originally claiming they could ultimately move 20GW.

The website says 750 MW planned in 2016 but they are now talking about a 200 MW pipe-let.

I don't think there is much doubt that large scale regional sharing is key to replacing fossils with clean energy.
Unfortunately, a forward thinking government is needed.

That was in 2017. The last press release on their website was in 11/2016, so I suspect they may well be dead, as their problem was lack of financing and not meeting targets. But the ability to move large amounts of renewable electricity to the coasts will be critical to any attempt to get off fossil fuels (for electricity), and so far, no one's willing to pay for that. Re Tres Amigas, this is from July 2015:
Tres Amigas, a $1.6 billion project meant to connect the three U.S. regional grid systems with a superconducting high-voltage direct current transmission link, has just lost an interconnection agreement with one of its key grid partners.

On Monday, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission issued an “instant proceeding” (PDF) approving a request from the Southwest Power Pool to terminate the interconnection agreement between Tres Amigas and utility Southwestern Public Service Co. (SPS). According to the document, the utility decided to terminate the agreement in May, after Tres Amigas had consistently defaulted on its milestone agreements and failed to make initial payments.

Xcel Energy, which owns SPS, told FERC that the utility had “voluntarily extended the deadlines for compliance with milestones contained in the Agreement four times, thereby delaying the Commercial Operation Date in the Agreement by nearly two years” since it was first filed in September 2013. SPS also agreed to decrease the initial payment owed by Tres Amigas from $7.5 million to $1.4 million, but still has not been paid, the FERC document stated.

That’s a tiny amount of money compared to the estimated $1.6 billion that Tres Amigas hopes to raise and spend to build its first-of-a-kind transmission link in Clovis, New Mexico. The idea is to build high-voltage direct current (HVDC) links between three U.S. grid systems -- the Eastern Interconnection, the Western Interconnection, and the Texas power grid -- to allow the large amounts of power being generated by wind and solar farms in that region to reach multiple markets. . . .;
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/tres-amigas-loses-key-interconnect-for-grid-connecting-project#gs.5rtbd3
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10330
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Well new mexico governor decided to make electricity unaffordable

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:10 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:We don't need tresamigas.

The proposed DCHV line was never about NM per se, but a proposal to link the wind resources in West Texas and Eastern NM with the
California market.

It will happen because it makes a LOT of sense, saves money, and allows the clean energy economy to blossom. We just have to get rid of the monkeys in the White House.

I was unaware trump was president in 2014-2015 when tresamigas progress stalled.
I would love for NM to sell wind power to California if they are unwilling to build their own wind farms.
But most of NM and California are on the same power grid, all we needed was additional high voltage AC capacity to get it to them. Fancy overpriced transmission lines not needed.

California isn't unwilling to build wind farms: after all, for many years we had the largest wind farm in the world. But the good onshore wind resources are mostly concentrated in just a few passes, and those have already been exploited. Off-shore has better resources but faces its own issues, cost first but also navigation and environmental/aesthetic. I personally like the way wind turbines look, but I'm apparently in a minority.

"Fancy overpriced lines" presumably refers to HV DC, but as that is cheaper when moving large amounts of electricity over long distances, I have no idea why you'd make that statement:
Over a specific distance, called as break-even distance, HVDC line becomes cheaper than HVAC. The break-even distance for overhead lines is around 600 km and for submarine lines it is around 50 km.
https://www.electricaleasy.com/2016/02/hvdc-vs-hvac.html

As the straight line distance from Clovis, NM to L.A. is almost 1,400 km and to NYC is over 2,600 km with the path of any transmission line being longer, there's no question whether AC or DC is cheaper.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Environmental Issues”