AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:34 pm

DanCar wrote:
AndyH wrote:
Perhaps we should all help with the poo poo namis(1:40). lol Thanks for posting that video.

Glad you enjoyed the video.

Do you see the complex web of functions and the way the system is balanced?
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AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:41 pm

Radionuclides in the Arctic Seas from the Former Soviet Union: Potential Health and Ecological Risks; US DOE, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, November 1, 1997, UCRL-CR-136696

http://dec.alaska.gov/air/am/rad/radstudies.htm

http://dec.alaska.gov/air/am/rad/doc/RN4.pdf

It's not like we don't already know about food webs or the way that substances bioaccumulate...

http://enenews.com/releasing-fukushima-radioactive-water-into-sea-inevitable-reports-japan-very-aware-of-threat-posed-by-past-releases-contaminants-will-be-concentrated-thousands-of-times-throughout-food

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1470160X14000831
http://enenews.com/fukushima-radiation-threatens-survival-baby-seabirds-additional-negative-impacts-expected-biomagnification-radioactive-material-food-chain-concern-immediate-worrisome-consequences-marine-wildlif
...these depletions most likely result from radiation exposure due to the Fukushima nuclear accident, implying that the risk of radionuclide contamination is considerably elevated for Streaked Shearwaters on MKR, where more than 60% of the world’s population breeds. While additional negative impacts are expected due to delayed effects of radionuclide transport via biomagnification in the food chain, this study highlights the potential immediate and worrisome consequences of the Fukushima nuclear accident for marine wildlife.


Even though we have very inexpensive ways to bioremediate the soil and the water in storage, it's easier to dump some in the Pacific and build waste dumps for the area's soils. Wouldn't be good to grow rice in soil contaminated with plutonium, anyway...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/japan-fukushima-plutonium-traces-soil
http://www.straight.com/news/680196/fukushimas-radioactive-soil-sparks-fights-exposes-enormity-and-hopelessness-clean-task
LAST WEEK’S ABJECT apology by Japanese environment minister Nobuteru Ishihara to Fukushima Prefecture officials underscores how serious the problem of contaminated-soil storage has become in that country....

In December 2013, Tokyo announced that it would spend almost $1 billion to store 132,738 tonnes of radioactive soil already removed from near the crippled power plant. No towns came forward to offer to sell the approximately three to five square kilometres of land estimated to be needed to build the supposedly “interim” facility to house the waste, currently stored temporarily in different locations around Japan.

(That plan covers less than 150,000 tons of soil. Greenpeace International has claimed that as of February 2013, more than four million tons of radioactive waste had been produced.)
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DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:56 pm

AndyH wrote:Do you see the complex web of functions and the way the system is balanced?
Not sure what balance you are referring too. There is the important of whales pointed out, but only states how more is better. I do find it interesting that if poop is that much value to the plankton then there is plenty of that to go around.

AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:04 pm

DanCar wrote:
AndyH wrote:Do you see the complex web of functions and the way the system is balanced?
Not sure what balance you are referring too.

This is the problem, Dan. The video describes a complex web of balanced interactions that is highly resilient but under extreme stress.

Why is it so easy for us to miss the balancing acts while we giggle about poop?
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DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:06 pm

AndyH wrote:
DanCar wrote:Not sure what balance you are referring too.

This is the problem, Dan. The video describes a complex web of balanced interactions that is highly resilient but under extreme stress.

Why is it so easy for us to miss the balancing acts while we giggle about poop?
Why do you not answer the question about balancing? And the poop comment is real. There is plenty to go around, so if it is helpful to the plankton we should be spreading it around.

AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:20 am

DanCar wrote:
AndyH wrote:
DanCar wrote:Not sure what balance you are referring too.

This is the problem, Dan. The video describes a complex web of balanced interactions that is highly resilient but under extreme stress.

Why is it so easy for us to miss the balancing acts while we giggle about poop?
Why do you not answer the question about balancing? And the poop comment is real. There is plenty to go around, so if it is helpful to the plankton we should be spreading it around.

Dan - the balance - that a complex web exists and how the keystone species in that web is being negatively affected by humans - is a major part of the video!

You keyed on - and continue to key on - whale excrement, while missing the major point.

No - don't ask me to explain it to you, and don't point back at me. Watch the video again, please...and ignore the poop this time.
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DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:15 am

AndyH wrote:Dan - the balance - that a complex web exists and how the keystone species in that web is being negatively affected by humans - is a major part of the video!
Sorry, that doesn't meet the definition of balance. A complex web does not mean balance. You seem to think that complexity is a major point. I don't. And I wouldn't call it complex. I would call it unintuitive and or not easily discoverable, but it is relatively simple circle of life. And that simple circle of life might be strengthened by spreading some poop.

AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:13 pm

DanCar wrote:
AndyH wrote:Dan - the balance - that a complex web exists and how the keystone species in that web is being negatively affected by humans - is a major part of the video!
Sorry, that doesn't meet the definition of balance. A complex web does not mean balance. You seem to think that complexity is a major point. I don't. And I wouldn't call it complex. I would call it unintuitive and or not easily discoverable, but it is relatively simple circle of life. And that simple circle of life might be strengthened by spreading some poop.

I didn't say the web was the balance, though, did I?

Here's another one - see if you can identify the web and at least two areas where balance was off (and how it affected the whole) and how the system changed when a critical piece was rebalanced. Good luck.

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DanCar
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:52 pm

Thanks! :) now I understand why we are putting back the wolves.

AndyH
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Re: Nuke Crisis : Level 7 on overall impact

Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:39 am

DanCar wrote:Thanks! :) now I understand why we are putting back the wolves.

These videos are very well done - I'm glad it was useful.

The whales are the ocean's wolves, Dan - they're a keystone species for the ocean.

We're already over fishing the oceans, destroying the sea floor habitats with drag nets, and creating dead zones with fertilizer run-off and oil spills. Then there's plastic, industrial chemicals, and other run-off from the land. Add in global warming and ocean acidification. Then there's radioactive waste, reactors, and old weapons dumped into the oceans. I'm not at all saying that the chemical run-off and continual releases of radioactive wastes from Japan are going to lead to Godzilla-sized plankton or the death of every human under age 7. But these are additional stressors in an already degraded system. I don't know where the tipping point might be placed - no idea. But I expect that there is at least one, and I think it's pretty clear that if the oceans die we go along for the ride. And that's not a very fun thought at all.
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