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mwalsh
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New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:58 pm

Haven't seen these posted anywhere before (including the web at large), so I don't know if these displays are fairly new? But there are two out there - a 2013 propulsion assembly, complete with inverter and charger, and a 2013 battery pack assembly.

The cutaways on the propulsion assembly are in the motor, showing it's windings, and in what they call the "reducer" (in the absence of anything better to call it, like a gearbox/transmission). I knew this reducer would be fairly simple, but I personally feel there are a couple more gears in there than there really needs to be. Perhaps those of you with engineering backgrounds can tell me why the one large helical gear, which from the looks of things directly drives the axle shafts, couldn't be driven by the gear coming off the end of the motor (other than it probably not being sized correctly for the desired gearing and not being cut the right way). I also don't see the point of the cog gear, unless it's job is to be engaged by a pawl when the car is in Park (this wasn't evident from the display). Either way, it's a pretty darn simple affair anyway...your car is probably not going to be in the shop for transmission problems anytime soon!
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mwalsh
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:59 pm

The battery pack cutaway is largely unremarkable other than the part showing individual cells inside the new type casing. Of course I couldn't resist touching the cell pouches, and was maybe a bit surprised to find they didn't have the foil-like consistency I'd imagined.
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2011 Blue Ocean SL with 75,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

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mwalsh
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:09 am

Since I can't add another picture to post one...the job of that one cogged gear IS to take the parking pawl, just as I'd envisaged:
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2011 Blue Ocean SL with 75,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

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TickTock
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:06 am

mwalsh wrote:Perhaps those of you with engineering backgrounds can tell me why the one large helical gear, which from the looks of things directly drives the axle shafts, couldn't be driven by the gear coming off the end of the motor (other than it probably not being sized correctly for the desired gearing and not being cut the right way).

Just a guess, but looks like they are getting ~2:1 reduction in the first set. If they did the entire reduction in one step, the drive gear would have to be twice as big (assuming the pinion gear is as small as it can be for the horsepower).

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TomT
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:51 am

Exactly. My dad was a mechanical engineer and once told me - somewhat tongue in cheek - how you select gears... He said, "Always pick them from the middle of the catalog range... Too small and they are fragile and noisy... Too large and they are cumbersome and inefficient..."

TickTock wrote:Just a guess, but looks like they are getting ~2:1 reduction in the first set. If they did the entire reduction in one step, the drive gear would have to be twice as big (assuming the pinion gear is as small as it can be for the horsepower).
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

donald
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:18 am

TomT wrote:He said, "Always pick them from the middle of the catalog range... Too small and they are fragile and noisy... Too large and they are cumbersome and inefficient..."


That being said, it looks like the Renault [Continental] system has a single reduction gear, judging from the size of that differential and location of bearing bosses (guess?), maybe saves a bit if efficiency especially at higher speeds, where the Fluence's mileage efficiency seems to gain on the Leaf?

Is Tesla S a single reduction gear?

Image

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TomT
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:09 pm

If efficiency is king, you also go with spur gears rather than bevel gears. Problem is, they are noisy, more fragile, and also must be precisely machined and fitted to eliminate excessive backlash...

donald wrote:That being said, it looks like the Renault [Continental] system has a single reduction gear, judging from the size of that differential and location of bearing bosses (guess?), maybe saves a bit if efficiency especially at higher speeds, where the Fluence's mileage efficiency seems to gain on the Leaf?
Last edited by TomT on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

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mwalsh
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:30 pm

Speaking of which...what does the LEAF do for a differential? Electronic?
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2011 Blue Ocean SL with 75,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
Tinted windows.
Bridgestone Ecopia 422+ tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
FIAMM horns.
Superbright LED lighting.
2013 sun visors.
LED shifter.
Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
AV L2 EVSE.

donald
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:45 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jul 2013

Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:36 pm

TomT wrote:If efficiency is king, you also go with spur gears rather than bevel gears.

Well, the Renault Fluence does have a bit of a characteristic whine. Not intrusive, but noticeable over the Leaf, I think. I doubt if it has straight cut gears - that would surely be too noisy (?) but maybe the gears run a reduced angle on the helical cut? Dunno, just punting a few thoughts.

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TomT
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Re: New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:41 pm

It has a very standard open mechanical differential like just about every other car in the world.

mwalsh wrote:Speaking of which...what does the LEAF do for a differential? Electronic?
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

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