daniel
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:57 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:25 pm

evnow wrote:One more important thing.

Let us say I want to take a week's holiday in SanFrancisco, like we have done before. The route from Seattle, through highway 1/101 is scenic - almost a "must see". I'd like to go in my EV since I can use that as an EV in SFO. My total emissions using EV + generator would be less than if I rent a prius for my trip.

We have to decide what is the ultimate aim - EV for the sake of it or emission/oil use reduction.

You are assuming that the genset is as efficient and as clean as a Prius. I strongly doubt this would be the case. The genset would have none of the technological sophistication of the Prius.

But my real question is this: Is an EV with a genset trailer really an EV at all? Or is it just a serial hybrid?

Bottom line for me: I just don't like gasoline, so I dislike the idea of trying to make an EV run on gasoline. I really don't think of the Leaf as the car for extended road trips, and given how bigger batteries are going to come on line, and fast charging is going to come on line (probably 10 to 15 minutes, rather than 30) I see the trailer as addressing a problem that is going to be with us only a few more years.
Reserved afternoon of 4/20.
"You can order" email late September, but was out of the country so...
Ordered very early October.
Dashboard says: more of the usual worthless Nissan b.s.
(Not on spreadsheet cuz I can't figure it out.)

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11450
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:10 pm

daniel wrote:You are assuming that the genset is as efficient and as clean as a Prius. I strongly doubt this would be the case. The genset would have none of the technological sophistication of the Prius.


That is because you are not looking at the full scenario. I'd use genset only during the trip (even there I'd try to charge at overnight stops and any fast charging during stop overs). Most importantly I'd use pure EV at my destination, SFO.

... I see the trailer as addressing a problem that is going to be with us only a few more years.


True. It is an interim solution ...
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4562
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:46 pm

These are all fun things to talk about, but in reference to the question posed by this thread "Is Nissan researching..." I hope the answer is "NO", at least to the extent whoever would be doing that research could be employed getting Leaf 1.0 to market, in particular to MY market. Plenty of time to think up improvements later. I think the PM's at Nissan are too smart to fall into the Aptera trap.

BTW I never thought to ask, do the windows on the Leaf roll down?
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

KarenRei
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:56 pm

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:36 pm

I really don't think of the Leaf as the car for extended road trips, and given how bigger batteries are going to come on line, and fast charging is going to come on line (probably 10 to 15 minutes, rather than 30) I see the trailer as addressing a problem that is going to be with us only a few more years.


I strongly disagree. Rapid chargers cost many tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars each -- the higher the power, the more they cost. And they either need to be paired with some serious grid work or a big battery buffer. There just isn't that kind of funding out there for that. And vehicles just aren't being engineered for that kind of charge rate right now. And since the average car stays on the road about two decades...

JasonT
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:42 am
Location: AZ

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:06 pm

DanCar wrote:I rent the trailer with 300 mile range and fill it up. I have to wait. I go an pick up the passengers and head out. None of them have to wait for the refill.

Ah, I see. I wasn't looking so far ahead (hacking of the software [assuming software is the only limitation], some sort of rewiring for this generator), and just figured you would still have to stop and charge, just with your own generator instead of a charging station. Anyone willing to go through all that - I commend them. I thought the people attempting plug-in mods to their Prius were impressive too - crazy, but impressive :-)

DanCar wrote:
JasonT wrote:If I wanted to go cross-country, or even Tucson <-> Phoenix on a regular basis, I would not buy this car.
What if it is only a few times a year?

I am in a two car household, and this car is only replacing one of them. However, even if I only had access to one car, I would first see if there are any friends that would swap cars for a day (and I'm guessing I would have no problem finding someone willing to do that). If that wasn't available for me when I wanted to take the trip I would go the rental option.

I agree with LTLFTcomposite - I hope that the answer to this thread's question is "No" as well. Nissan does not seem to be aiming to make this car the every-car for everyone. EV cars have a long time (if ever!) before they become that. If someone wants to attempt their own wacky mod to the Leaf, I saw more power to you - but I see no reason why Nissan should be involved in it.

KarenRei
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:56 pm

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:53 am

I hope the answer is, "yes, as a for-profit option". For-profit options don't derail development; you can afford to sink new people into it if you're making money on the feature.

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4562
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:24 pm

A genset on a trailer just has too many of issues from the standpoint of creating an idiot-proof consumer product. For starters you pretty much wouldn't be able to back up with such a short frame trailer. It would hang out in a parking space. There are laws about safety chains and lighting on such a trailer. What is the tongue weight? Could your wife or mother handle hooking it up? Does the tire pressure monitoring system monitor the tires on the trailer? What about the stability control? How does it affect the braking distance? High voltage cables running from the trailer to the back of the car? You bottom out pulling out of a driveway and the insulation is damaged?

With some hacking you could get it to work as hobbyist. As a product certified as safe by a lawsuit target like Nissan? Fuggedaboudit.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

mitch672
Posts: 1956
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:10 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:52 pm

The genset trailer developed for the Toyota RAV4EV had "steerable" wheels, so that it tracked properly when backing up and wouldn't jack knife. If a connector was designed on the rear of the car, along with the correct trailer hitch, it would be perfeclty workable. All that being said, I think Nissan has no interest in pursing this, as the entire sales pitch for the Leaf is "No Gas", so adding gas to get more range is probably a deal breaker for them.

with all of that said, I would not rule out 3rd party aftermarket companies comming up with something, that would not surprise me at all... as far as Nissan goes, not a chance.

Taken from "darel the ev nut":
http://www.evnut.com/

"The Long Ranger was an AC Propulsion project (commissioned by Toyota) to build a generator trailer that would allow liquid-fueled high-speed travel in the Rav4EV. There were many obstacles to this project seeing the light of day - most of them bureaucratic. For most practical purposes, the project was a great success that never really saw the light of day before the Rav4EV program was terminated. A 500cc motorcycle engine is used, housed in a small, aerodynamic package. ~20kW DC output is sufficient for extended high-speed travel. The micro trailer incorporates intelligent "BackTracker" steering which automatically maintains trailer-to-vehicle alignment during backing to avoid jack-knifing. There is little question that this 350 pound trailer functioned as planned - sustaining freeways speeds for as long as the 9.5 gallon tank had gasoline. Amazingly, even with all the conversion losses added up, the gas mileage of this combo is comparable or BETTER than the pure gasoline version of the same vehicle. See a similar trailer behind the Tzero. The white papers."
2012 Advanced Plug in Prius (sold)
I Support OpenEVSE: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
My Fuelly page: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mitch672/prius-plugin
Tesla Model S 85KW Dolphin Grey VIN: 03245, delivered 1/17/2013

KarenRei
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:56 pm

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:20 pm

350lb? Huh, lighter than I remembered. Neat. :)

mywaracfirfoyff
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:32 pm

Re: Is Nissan researching a gasoline based electricity generator

Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:37 pm

evnow wrote:I'd like to go in my EV since I can use that as an EV in SFO. My total emissions using EV + generator would be less than if I rent a prius for my trip.

The long ranger used a motorcycle engine. Getting a small engine like this to run cleanly is very hard.

Scooters and motorcycles can pollute 90 times as much as SUVs.
http://ecomodder.com/blog/motorcycles-s ... ent-wrong/

A solution I'd love to see to this would be the option to have your car loaded with you on a train, then you could ride the train down and drive your electric car locally.

Thanks!

Return to “Ask Nissan”