mitch672
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:19 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
evnow wrote:Major CO2 reductions that are needed to save the planet (no hyperbole here) do not come about without any lifestyle changes.


CO2, schmee-O2, people aren't interested in making lifestyle changes to save the planet. Only solutions that enhance our lifestyles need apply.


Speaking on "saving the planet" George Carlin had something to say about that (of course):
http://gospelofreason.wordpress.com/200 ... t-is-fine/
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:52 pm

mitch672 wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
evnow wrote:Major CO2 reductions that are needed to save the planet (no hyperbole here) do not come about without any lifestyle changes.


CO2, schmee-O2, people aren't interested in making lifestyle changes to save the planet. Only solutions that enhance our lifestyles need apply.


Speaking on "saving the planet" George Carlin had something to say about that (of course):
http://gospelofreason.wordpress.com/200 ... t-is-fine/


http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-s ... -on-earth/

So at best we've got half a billion years left.

"As the climate becomes warmer, the cycle of silicate rock weather speeds up, removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and sequestering it as calcium carbonate in the oceans. Without carbon dioxide, plants won't be able to survive, and everything relying on them dies too."

How ironic.
LTL
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AndyH
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:07 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:"As the climate becomes warmer, the cycle of silicate rock weather speeds up, removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and sequestering it as calcium carbonate in the oceans. Without carbon dioxide, plants won't be able to survive, and everything relying on them dies too."

How ironic.


Ok...you mean it'll be like the child that wants to walk to visit grandma? "silly child - of COURSE it's easy! All you have to do is dump a bunch of sponges into the Atlantic ocean and then you can walk from Maine to Wales."

Crushed rock can absorb CO2, and will eventually end up in the oceans to make new rock, we are reportedly putting 40 times more CO2 into the air than rock can remove naturally. MacKay suggests we could make a difference if we spread rock over all exposed land - who wants to start crushing rock?

LEAFfan
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:44 pm

Gonewild wrote:I hear the Nissan Leaf will travel about 100 mile on the LA4 test. I drive about 38 mile to work one way on the freeway which is basically flat with no hills. Will the Leaf go to work and back at 65 mile per hour? I think once it is up to speed it would use less power then a lot of stops and starts to 45 or 50 mph. I looking forward to getting my car soon. I live in the Phoenix area and have my $99 buck in as soon as the email came in and it was processed with no problems.


I live in the Phoenix area too, and my commute is 70 miles roundtrip...I know I can go 65 (at the beginning of the trip, traffic has me going under 60) and make it (according to Nissan), so maybe if you slowed down to 60 for just a few miles, you would probably make it too.
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LEAFfan
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:56 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
evnow wrote:Ofcource I should point out this is for Tesla Roadster, not Leaf.

A good way to calculate mileage wouldbe to use the wh/mile graph and use an assumption of usable 21 kwh energy in Leaf. You can get approximate range for any cycle that you want, including the newer cycle EPA uses (LA4 is the old EPA city cycle).

So @ 60mph, you need 250w/m - so you get a range of 84 miles. That is more than what I'd have guessed.

Having said that, everyone needs to assess how sustainable a lifestyle that needs 70 to 80 miles of commute a day really is. Major CO2 reductions that are needed to save the planet (no hyperbole here) do not come about without any lifestyle changes.


I would say closer to 70 with acceptable pack temps, no headwind or grades @ 65 mph. How do you get 250 wh/mile at 70? That's assuming the car consumes 250 at all speeds which is not accurate and making these comparisons to the Tesla is not a very accurate measure at highway speeds. That is an extremely low penalty to pay at highway speeds and the Leaf does not have astonishing aerodynamics. Since the Leaf has 19.2kwh to work with, even if it only consumed 250wh per mile that would be 76.8 miles best case. Remember, the car cycles to 80% DOD and it's quite sly to state a range based on 100% DOD and lowest possible consumption cycle.


Where did you see the DOD being 80%? I saw and read somewhere that it is going to be 90-10. And IF it is 80-20, is there a way to override it to make it 90-10? I'm leasing so battery life doesn't matter to me.
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LEAFfan
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:10 pm

AndyH wrote:Another look at energy use VS. speed - from the internal combustion world.

This chart is compiled from data collected by hundreds of VW diesel drivers that are part of tdiclub.com.
Image

The first thing to point out is that it's 'upside down' compared with the Tesla watt hour per mile chart because it's a 'miles per unit of energy' chart instead of a 'unit of energy per mile' chart. Notice that the highest fuel economy for a range of different models (Jetta, Golf, Beetle, Passat have different colors) happens at 35mph?

While the absolute fuel economy - energy per mile - changes from a bit over 60 to 90 miles per gallon, the speed for highest economy (lowest energy use) happens at the same speed - regardless of vehicle size, drag, or weight (again - within this group of diesel powered VWs).

When an EV manufacturer says a car gets best range at 35 they're simply reflecting the laws of physics, not necessarily a misguided marketing department. It's common for electric scooter manufacturers, for example, to give a 'max range' number, and a 'max speed' number. The max range will happen at about 35 mph - and unless one has a downhill commute both ways :) they'll not get that same range at 55mph.

Just like with a gas car - if you need to get another 10 miles out of the 'tank' to make that fuel station, turn off the AC, slow down, and crank-up your hypermiling skillz. :D
Andy


Maybe those cars get their best mileage at 35, but I have a scangauge, and 42 mph is where I get the best mileage (low 50's). My car doesn't even shift yet at 35, so I'm surprised to hear that for diesel cars. I had a diesel rabbit and it obtained 55mpg at 60mph on the freeway. I did an economy run (contest) of 42 miles with it and obtained 82mpg blowing away ALL the other competitors. I remember passing a vette that was going about 12mph. :)
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AndyH
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:36 pm

leaffan wrote:Maybe those cars get their best mileage at 35, but I have a scangauge, and 42 mph is where I get the best mileage (low 50's). My car doesn't even shift yet at 35, so I'm surprised to hear that for diesel cars. I had a diesel rabbit and it obtained 55mpg at 60mph on the freeway. I did an economy run (contest) of 42 miles with it and obtained 82mpg blowing away ALL the other competitors. I remember passing a vette that was going about 12mph. :)


Absolutely! That particular chart was for Dub TDIs. Your car peaks a bit higher - the Tesla a bit lower. I expect there's good info in the curve even if we have to shift it around a bit.

What do you think our ScanGauges will do in the Leaf? :D

Andy

LEAFfan
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:33 pm

AndyH wrote:
leaffan wrote:Maybe those cars get their best mileage at 35, but I have a scangauge, and 42 mph is where I get the best mileage (low 50's). My car doesn't even shift yet at 35, so I'm surprised to hear that for diesel cars. I had a diesel rabbit and it obtained 55mpg at 60mph on the freeway. I did an economy run (contest) of 42 miles with it and obtained 82mpg blowing away ALL the other competitors. I remember passing a vette that was going about 12mph. :)


Absolutely! That particular chart was for Dub TDIs. Your car peaks a bit higher - the Tesla a bit lower. I expect there's good info in the curve even if we have to shift it around a bit.

What do you think our ScanGauges will do in the Leaf? :D

Andy


I don't know if we'll be able to use them in an all electric car, so i was going to either put it in our other car, or let it go with my car when I sell it.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
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AndyH
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:46 pm

leaffan wrote:I don't know if we'll be able to use them in an all electric car, so i was going to either put it in our other car, or let it go with my car when I sell it.


Good point...no OBDII port required since no emissions systems to track? Maybe Nissan will include it anyway as a system port. Something else to wait to find out. Thanks!

mitch672
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Re: 100 miles?

Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:49 pm

Although the Leaf could have an OBD II port (for diagnostic purposes), it won't be required for "emmisions" purposes, now would it. I do expect the car will have an I2C bus that is readable, so perhaps they will stay with an OBD 2 type connector (since it is a well recognized standard already), but it would probably be just for battery pack charge/discharge history downloading, and perhaps the torque/rpm of the motor could be read, and the SOC of the battery pack, etc. All of that may also be viewable on the built in display as well, who knows.
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