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100 miles?

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:35 pm
by Gonewild
I hear the Nissan Leaf will travel about 100 mile on the LA4 test. I drive about 38 mile to work one way on the freeway which is basically flat with no hills. Will the Leaf go to work and back at 65 mile per hour? I think once it is up to speed it would use less power then a lot of stops and starts to 45 or 50 mph. I looking forward to getting my car soon. I live in the Phoenix area and have my $99 buck in as soon as the email came in and it was processed with no problems.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:49 pm
by efusco
Gonewild wrote:I hear the Nissan Leaf will travel about 100 mile on the LA4 test. I drive about 38 mile to work one way on the freeway which is basically flat with no hills. Will the Leaf go to work and back at 65 mile per hour? I think once it is up to speed it would use less power then a lot of stops and starts to 45 or 50 mph. I looking forward to getting my car soon. I live in the Phoenix area and have my $99 buck in as soon as the email came in and it was processed with no problems.

Don't think you're likely to have enough range at 65mph...maybe on a good day you'll just make it, but run the AC in the summer and forget it.

Perhaps you can talk to your employer about plugging in at work. Even if it's just 110v, over the course of a day, you should have enough to assure getting home.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:33 pm
by Gonewild
I am hoping to get my company to install some outlets outside. But I would be willing to drive 55 or 60 if I got to work and back again. I have charging station near where I work. I would not mind using a public charging station if I am out and about on my day off but I am one who like to go straight home after a long day. A stop at a public charge station every day on my way home would be a killer.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:06 pm
by EVDRIVER
Gonewild wrote:I hear the Nissan Leaf will travel about 100 mile on the LA4 test. I drive about 38 mile to work one way on the freeway which is basically flat with no hills. Will the Leaf go to work and back at 65 mile per hour? I think once it is up to speed it would use less power then a lot of stops and starts to 45 or 50 mph. I looking forward to getting my car soon. I live in the Phoenix area and have my $99 buck in as soon as the email came in and it was processed with no problems.



Consumption on an ev is much higher at freeway speeds over slow stop and go. I have mentioned before that the LA4 is deceptive for rating real world range. You will be pushing the limit at that speed as 70 miles is more realistic at a high DOD. You will be far better off charging at work and your pack will thank you.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:29 pm
by evnow

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:44 pm
by drees
Yep, specifically look at the speed/range chart on their blog.

Image

If you assume that the Tesla's ~240mi range is the same as the Leaf's 100mi range, that gives you an idea of what speeds you can travel for how far. Just divide the range number on the chart by 240 to get some real rough approximations.

For example:

At 45mph you'd have 120mi range.
At 55mph you'd have 100mi range.
At 60mph you'd have 90mi range.
At 65mph you'd have 80 mi range.
At 70mph you'd have 75 mi range.
At 75mph you'd have 69 mi range.
At 80mph you'd have 63 mi range.

So to answer the question, yes, it seems that at 65mph you should be able to just barely make it to work and back 76 miles.

Disclaimer: Numbers above based completely on conjecture. Your mileage may vary.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:27 am
by mwalsh
Nice legwork Drees! I hope that people gain an real understanding of what 100 miles LA4 means, and that the marginal ones know the compromises they'll need to observe to reach and return from their destinations.

If your figures hold true, Nissan should take them and really start pounding them into people's heads, instead of saying "Oh, sure, 100 miles LA4".

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:57 am
by evnow
Ofcource I should point out this is for Tesla Roadster, not Leaf.

A good way to calculate mileage wouldbe to use the wh/mile graph and use an assumption of usable 21 kwh energy in Leaf. You can get approximate range for any cycle that you want, including the newer cycle EPA uses (LA4 is the old EPA city cycle).

So @ 60mph, you need 250w/m - so you get a range of 84 miles. That is more than what I'd have guessed.

Having said that, everyone needs to assess how sustainable a lifestyle that needs 70 to 80 miles of commute a day really is. Major CO2 reductions that are needed to save the planet (no hyperbole here) do not come about without any lifestyle changes.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:59 am
by EVDRIVER
evnow wrote:Ofcource I should point out this is for Tesla Roadster, not Leaf.

A good way to calculate mileage wouldbe to use the wh/mile graph and use an assumption of usable 21 kwh energy in Leaf. You can get approximate range for any cycle that you want, including the newer cycle EPA uses (LA4 is the old EPA city cycle).

So @ 60mph, you need 250w/m - so you get a range of 84 miles. That is more than what I'd have guessed.

Having said that, everyone needs to assess how sustainable a lifestyle that needs 70 to 80 miles of commute a day really is. Major CO2 reductions that are needed to save the planet (no hyperbole here) do not come about without any lifestyle changes.


I would say closer to 70 with acceptable pack temps, no headwind or grades @ 65 mph. How do you get 250 wh/mile at 70? That's assuming the car consumes 250 at all speeds which is not accurate and making these comparisons to the Tesla is not a very accurate measure at highway speeds. That is an extremely low penalty to pay at highway speeds and the Leaf does not have astonishing aerodynamics. Since the Leaf has 19.2kwh to work with, even if it only consumed 250wh per mile that would be 76.8 miles best case. Remember, the car cycles to 80% DOD and it's quite sly to state a range based on 100% DOD and lowest possible consumption cycle.

Re: 100 miles?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:15 am
by evnow
EVDRIVER wrote:I would say closer to 70 with acceptable pack temps, no headwind or grades @ 65 mph.


Your guess is as good as mine.

How do you get 250 wh/mile at 70? That's assuming the car consumes 250 at all speeds which is not accurate and making these comparisons to the Tesla is not a very accurate measure at highway speeds.


Hmmm .. that doesn't make any sense. Obviously when I say "So @ 60mph, you need 250w/m - so you get a range of 84 miles." - it means at a constant 60mph.

That is an extremely low penalty to pay at highway speeds and the Leaf does not have astonishing aerodynamics. Since the Leaf has 19.2kwh to work with, even if it only consumed 250wh per mile that would be 76.8 miles best case. Remember, the car cycles to 80% DOD and it's quite sly to state a range based on 100% DOD and lowest possible consumption cycle.


Where did you get 19.2kwh ?