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OrientExpress
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Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:49 am

SageBrush wrote:@OrientExpress cannot understand (or does not want to understand) that the lion's share of people able and willing to spend $30k+ on an EV have abandoned Nissan.


Sagebrush does not seem to understand market dynamics, and that Nissan couldn't care less abut those that have churned out for a more expensive EV (and the magic differentiator number is actually $40K). They are just happy that they were able to give those aspirational EV'ers an entry point into the EV game.

It is best that these early LEAF adopters move on to another marque and become that marques problem.

But for the second wave of new EV intenders, especially the younger ones that may aspire to a trendy EV, the reality is that their options are limited to a used EV, a limited range compliance EV, or a new entry level LEAF, especially if they have the foresight to understand the total cost of ownership of a trendy EV. These intenders are the ones that Nissan is targeting, and there are more than enough of them to make those "abandoning" Nissan irrelevant.

I think it will be very interesting to actually see how many of the Model 3 intenders actually consummate that acquisition. If this board is any indication, the average Model 3 intender talks a big game, but does not have to wallet to back it up.
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
46,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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TomT
Posts: 10575
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Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:14 am

Actually, I got my email to configure this week so it is closer than I anticipated... I plan to pick it up at the factory and drive it back...

powersurge wrote:It is nice to dream of a model 3, but I don't think you will ever get one in your driveway. They do not the capactity to manufacture.. Not enough money...
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 configured.

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abasile
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Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:55 am

OrientExpress wrote:Sagebrush does not seem to understand market dynamics, and that Nissan couldn't care less abut those that have churned out for a more expensive EV (and the magic differentiator number is actually $40K). They are just happy that they were able to give those aspirational EV'ers an entry point into the EV game.

It is best that these early LEAF adopters move on to another marque and become that marques problem.

I hope that these statements are not reflective of Nissan's attitude toward their early LEAF adopters.

Many of us own multiple cars. Not every car in our "stable" has to be a Tesla! Our 2011 LEAF, though crippled by excessive battery capacity loss and overly limited regen, continues to be useful as a local runabout. One day, we may choose to replace it with a budget-priced EV, ideally with 150+ miles of EPA range, better battery longevity, and AWD.

Further, many of us influence others who buy cars, including our own children as they become young adults.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12397
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:11 pm

Realize if not for us, there would be no bargain used EV market and we would still have that many more gassers on the road.

We can talk all we want about how Tesla this and Chevy that but the reality is Nissan is not in either market space.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reddy
Posts: 1453
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Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:38 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Reddy wrote:Well, at least we are here and EVs are unstoppable..

And we have people like you to thank. THANK YOU

My Tesla Model 3 reservation is presently estimated for Q1 2018. We'll see, but I can wait for whenever it is ready. @OrientExpress cannot understand (or does not want to understand) that the lion's share of people able and willing to spend $30k+ on an EV have abandoned Nissan.

What Model 3 are you thinking of buying ? I keep vacillating between the $36k base and a $10k more expensive, optioned up version. I'll probably have to visit a show room to decide.
You're welcome. I was certainly able to afford it, having started saving for an EV in 1992 when I purchased my last and only ICE vehicle.

I've said before that I think a 200 mi EV is just about right in terms of battery size (1000-2000 cycles at 200 mi/cycle is about right for the current LiON battery technology). Since I have time, I'll probably go with the smaller battery Tesla, but with dual wheel drive. I like the concept of improved mileage with the two motors and the more even tire wear. Since Tesla has an extensive supercharger network with less than 150 mi spacing, the longer range battery isn't really needed for my driving pattern. All out-of-town trips are supported by stations at 90-120 mi. In-town, I haven't been able to exhaust the 2011 Leaf battery, so a new Tesla M3 would be like a rocket ship.

I'm not sure about the high end options. I currently like driving but age and health may force the need for autopilot or self-driving (if they ever perfect it and get approvals). If a "deal" comes up on a used M3, I might go with all options, but probably I'll get the stripper version. The one thing I absolutely like about the 2011 Leaf is the non-leather, tan interior. I greatly dislike black or leather, which is definitely problematic with the current M3. I, too, will wait until I can actually drive the vehicle and have a number of choices for options. In the end, I may cancel the reservation and get something else, but I doubt it. No other EV can match Tesla's charging network, and I expect it will be similar in the future.

OrientExpress is correct about price being a significant driver for many people. I think the 150 mi Leaf2 does fill a niche but they need to price it under $25K when all the tax credits are gone. Even so, most people cannot even afford a used $10K vehicle, which is why most keep their existing ICE, worth maybe $500, and continue paying the oil piper. I'm seeing a significant number of used Leafs in our area because of the $8K pricing. Once the used 150 mi Leaf2 hits the streets in 2020, then we really will see an impact (providing that Nissan produces more than 3000/mo).
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 43,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

Durandal
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:09 pm

powersurge wrote:
TomT wrote:That pretty much sums it up for me too...

dm33 wrote:Model 3 reservation in place.

Not interested in 2018 leaf.
Too little range.
No thermal management of the battery.

Would consider the Bolt before the leaf.


It is nice to dream of a model 3, but I don't think you will ever get one in your driveway. They do not the capactity to manufacture.. Not enough money...

I will have mine in July of 2018. Others have already mentioned that they've already received configuration emails. By March 2018, they'll be sending out thousands of copies of the Model 3, despite your wish for them to fail. (And why?)
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

rcm4453
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:35 pm

WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:@OrientExpress cannot understand (or does not want to understand) that the lion's share of people able and willing to spend $30k+ on an EV have abandoned Nissan.


Nissan has a history of large discounts from MSRP. $30k MSRP means well under $30k actual selling price.

Nissan Leaf is a very reliable car, and I'm on track for over 100k miles on my battery.


Well you wouldn't be saying that if you had the crappy 30kwh battery!

Obviously Nissan took a huge step backwards with 2016 & 2017 Leaf 30kwh batteries. Reminds me of the crappy canary battery they used from 2011- March of 2013.

Nissan just doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to the battery portion of the Leaf.

SageBrush
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:13 pm

rcm4453 wrote:
WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:@OrientExpress cannot understand (or does not want to understand) that the lion's share of people able and willing to spend $30k+ on an EV have abandoned Nissan.


Nissan has a history of large discounts from MSRP. $30k MSRP means well under $30k actual selling price.

Nissan Leaf is a very reliable car, and I'm on track for over 100k miles on my battery.


Well you wouldn't be saying that if you had the crappy 30kwh battery!

Obviously Nissan took a huge step backwards with 2016 & 2017 Leaf 30kwh batteries. Reminds me of the crappy canary battery they used from 2011- March of 2013.

Nissan just doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to the battery portion of the Leaf.

He also lives in Seattle, WA.

It's the other 98% of the country that agrees that the Nissan battery is poor.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

WetEV
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:59 am

rcm4453 wrote:Nissan just doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to the battery portion of the Leaf.


The battery in the 2014 is pretty good. Nissan doesn't have everything worked out, is true. Still, is one of the more reliable cars on the road.

Look at my electric alternatives when I bought my first Leaf, in 2012:

1) Ford Focus Electric. Yes, in some ways a cooler car than the Leaf. Better looking. But... Stop Safely Now bug, and worse battery life than the Leaf.
2) Tesla Roadster. I can't fit in one.
3) iMiev.
4) Conversion car. Lots of work, more money, and so on.


Nissan has done good. Not perfect, but good.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

WetEV
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:07 am

SageBrush wrote:He also lives in Seattle, WA.

It's the other 98% of the country that agrees that the Nissan battery is poor.


Near Seattle, not in.

Nissan has made several different batteries. Some have been better, some have been worse.

I might buy a 2018 near the end of the year if a list of factors is true.

It is clear you are not interested in the slightest, so why clog up this topic with saying so?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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