WetEV
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 pm

SageBrush wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Here is why the LEAF will be a big success in the 2018 Model year.

Set the 2018 LEAF to 100 miles range to account for expected battery degradation.


Eh? Where? Not for me. I'm probably down 10% at almost 4 years and almost 40,000 miles.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
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GerryAZ
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:31 pm

I plan to keep my 2015 for a long time just as I intended to keep my 2011. If something happens to force a change, I will purchase the best EV for my needs that is realistically available in AZ. I am not keen on the new dashboard and body style, but I suspect the new LEAF will still be the best available EV for my unique driving needs when it arrives at dealers in 2018. Therefore, I hope nothing bad happens to my 2015 SL.

I recently looked at Teslas at their local store and was told they do not recommend parking for extended time in hot weather without being plugged in. I suspect that is typical for any of the cars with active battery thermal management, but have not talked to anyone knowledgeable about the Bolt or the BMW (only other choices realistically available here). I wil be averaging between 17K and 18K miles per year on the 2015 by the time it is 3 years old and frequently park for 2 to 3 weeks at a time with no way to plug in while traveling so my needs are somewhat unique.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

jjeff
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:40 pm

OrientExpress wrote:Here is why the LEAF will be a big success in the 2018 Model year. It's all about the best car for the price.

Image

I'm confused by that chart in respect to the BMW i3. 60kwh battery giving less than a 100 mile range :?
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
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evnow
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:44 pm

OrientExpress wrote:Here is why the LEAF will be a big success in the 2018 Model year. It's all about the best car for the price.


Obviously what Nissan is hoping for - but who knows what happens. My expectation is - it will sell as well as Bolt is doing now (3k per month).

We'll still have to wait for that 10k a month EV.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

SageBrush
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:47 pm

This entire argument of @orientExpress is a straw man
So what? It could have a jillion kWh battery, but if you can't sell it at a price that makes you a profit, then you have to sell it at a loss. That is the crux of GM's dilemma, they thought that the market for entry level EVs was range sensitive ("give them 200+ range and they will be standing in line for you to take their money"), when it is not, it is price sensitive, always has been.

But nevertheless, GM flooded the market with $42K+ 200+ mile cars that were simply too expensive for their target market. At one point this summer, GM had over 200 days worth of Bolt inventory gathering dust on dealers lots. So they were forced to do what any good marketeer does with distressed merchandise, you fire sale the hell out of it to move it off the lot and take the loss. Currently GM loses about $6K on incentives for every Bolt that moves off of a dealers lot.


He defines the target market as price sensitive, then rhapsodizes how GM ignored price sensitivity.
As if that same market was not value sensitive, or range sensitive, or sensitive to practicality.

As if $30k is a wonderful price for this imagined price sensitive market slice. The Bolt died the day the Model 3 was announced. The LEAF is irrelevant to the Bolt story, just as is the Bolt price. This forum is an echo chamber that misses the rest of the world. For every person committed to buying a Bolt or a LEAF, there are 50 committed to buying a Model 3.

Nissan was able to sell damaged goods as an early mover and before the extent of their poor engineering became widely known. That situation does not exist today. It is not by chance that this forum mostly dwells on super cheap, used LEAFs for sale. If you want to identify the price sensitive EV market, it is nicely under $10k.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Reddy
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:35 pm

SageBrush wrote:Nissan was able to sell damaged goods as an early mover and before the extent of their poor engineering became widely known. That situation does not exist today. It is not by chance that this forum mostly dwells on super cheap, used LEAFs for sale. If you want to identify the price sensitive EV market, it is nicely under $10k.
What a great summary! Been there, done that. I now wish that I waited back in 2011 and let others take the brunt of the bleeding edge. I paid full MSRP. In hindsight, I could have let someone do the heavy lifting, waited 3 years, and picked up a 3-bar loser for less than $10k. What I know now could get me a new battery at less than 1/2 the cost. Well, at least we are here and EVs are unstoppable. Still, not another Nissan for me unless they replace my defective 9-bar battery. I'm pretty sure that won't happen, so a Tesla M3 for me, probably in 2020 or so.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 43,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

SageBrush
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:26 pm

Reddy wrote:Well, at least we are here and EVs are unstoppable..

And we have people like you to thank. THANK YOU

My Tesla Model 3 reservation is presently estimated for Q1 2018. We'll see, but I can wait for whenever it is ready. @OrientExpress cannot understand (or does not want to understand) that the lion's share of people able and willing to spend $30k+ on an EV have abandoned Nissan.

What Model 3 are you thinking of buying ? I keep vacillating between the $36k base and a $10k more expensive, optioned up version. I'll probably have to visit a show room to decide.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:47 am

jjeff wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Here is why the LEAF will be a big success in the 2018 Model year. It's all about the best car for the price.

Image

I'm confused by that chart in respect to the BMW i3. 60kwh battery giving less than a 100 mile range :?


It's 60Ah, not 60kWh. Huge difference. The battery is nominally 360V. 360V * 60Ah = 21.6kWh.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

jjeff
Posts: 1546
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Leaf Number: 422121
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:49 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:It's 60Ah, not 60kWh. Huge difference. The battery is nominally 360V. 360V * 60Ah = 21.6kWh.

Ahhh yes, that makes sense :idea: Strange they should list it in Ah...really a worthless value without also knowing the voltage of the pack. None the less around 20kWh makes sense.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

WetEV
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Re: Committed LEAF 2018 Buyer: Raise Your Hand

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:17 am

SageBrush wrote:@OrientExpress cannot understand (or does not want to understand) that the lion's share of people able and willing to spend $30k+ on an EV have abandoned Nissan.


Nissan has a history of large discounts from MSRP. $30k MSRP means well under $30k actual selling price.

Nissan Leaf is a very reliable car, and I'm on track for over 100k miles on my battery.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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