groingo
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:43 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Mar 2017

Cold weather longer charge times

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:48 pm

My 2014 Leaf drives the exact same route and distance dally now 35,000 miles 12 bars but once the temperature dipped below 42 degrees I have lost over ten miles range but it now takes twice as long and twice the power to charge the car to do the same job, this is with the 110 charger.
I read a report on Lithium batteries in electric cars from MIT that cold temps will slow down the charging process because of increased resistance which makes sense.
At this point with the increased cost of power (power company PSE has increased rates 5 times this year alone) it is less expensive to drive my Geo Metro.
Dealer and Nissan USA no help, looks like one of those things they'd rather not talk about, car will be sold in spring.

stephenworkman
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:44 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Feb 2017
Leaf Number: 310400
Location: NW Indiana

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:46 pm

Now, I'm no electrician or electrical engineer, but doesn't the traction battery pull the same amount of electricity from that 110 socket to fully charge - whether it's 70 degrees F. or 30 degrees F.? I mean sure, it takes longer due to the resistance, but the same amount of juice is sent into the batteries. Or am I wrong? Anyone else here who can enlighten us on this, please chime in. I also charge via 110 v.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:57 pm

The car will use more power while driving in cold weather due to higher rolling resistance, higher aerodynamic drag, and heater/defroster use. Therefore, it will require more energy from the wall to recharge. Higher internal resistance of the battery theoretically increases charging losses, but the resistance increase is not a lot so the net effect on charging energy is minimal. Level 2 (208 or240 volt) charging is more efficient than L1 so it is beneficial to use L2, if available.

Edited to add: You don't say where you are located and what power company you have, but I strongly doubt that the Geo Metro would be significantly less expensive to operate if all costs are accurately considered. With off-peak power rates and L2 charging, the electricity for my LEAF is less expensive than gasoline for my motorcycle. Also, a gasoline engine vehicle has more routine maintenance expense than an EV.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

groingo
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:43 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Mar 2017

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:53 pm

Am in Washington State with Puget Sound Energy, unfortunately they are a very greedy bunch and offer no off peak rates.
The Leaf is not only taking twice as long to charge but using twice the energy according to the meter which is a dedicated system exclusive for the car.
This all began back in September when temperatures dropped below 42 degrees and battery temp dropped from five to four bars which is where it has stayed.
I constantly get the snow flake on the dash, car is parked inside.
Dealer has checked car and charger all checked out, charger puts out 11.9 above 42 and 11.04 below, so it's definitely hitting a wall.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:01 pm

I doubt that there is anything wrong with your car. There is a certain amount of power required by the car to run auxiliary systems while charging so L2 is much more efficient because you get about four times the input power compared to L1 while the auxiliary power needs remain the same.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

Dooglas
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:15 pm

Puget Sound Energy's current residential rates are between 9 and 11 cents per kWh. That means an entire charge of your traction battery is about the cost of one gallon of gas. And proportionally less per day depending on how much of a total charge you actually use. I don't see any possible way you could be doing better than that in a Geo Metro.

https://pse.com/aboutpse/Rates/Document ... _12_19.pdf
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13328
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:28 pm

groingo wrote:Am in Washington State with Puget Sound Energy, unfortunately they are a very greedy bunch and offer no off peak rates.
The Leaf is not only taking twice as long to charge but using twice the energy according to the meter which is a dedicated system exclusive for the car.
This all began back in September when temperatures dropped below 42 degrees and battery temp dropped from five to four bars which is where it has stayed.
I constantly get the snow flake on the dash, car is parked inside.
Dealer has checked car and charger all checked out, charger puts out 11.9 above 42 and 11.04 below, so it's definitely hitting a wall.


efficiency drops with temperature and that is true of all cars no matter what they run on. So cost is going up whether its electricity or gas.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cwerdna
Posts: 8397
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:06 pm

groingo wrote:Am in Washington State with Puget Sound Energy, unfortunately they are a very greedy bunch and offer no off peak rates.

You don't know greed until you've lived in areas of expensive electricity like PG&E (Pacific Gouge & Extort). See viewtopic.php?p=513907#p513907. Look at the E-1 link (non-TOU) and E-6 (TOU plan that I'm on) along w/what's considered baseline (tier 1).

There is an EV plan which isn't good for my usage patterns. See pages 1 and 4 of https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf.

You have it REALLY good on PSE, in comparison.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

johnlocke
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:56 pm

SDG&E rates start a 22.6 cents a KWH for tier 1 rates (first 400-500 KWH/mo) and go UP from there. tier 2 is 39.8 cents per KWH ( this what you are charging the car with typically). Summer rates are higher. Even with CARE and Medical rates you are talking 15 cents a KWH. Even at $.40/KWH and a 20 KWH charge, that's $8.00 for 70-80 mi. driving. A Metro with $3 gas could beat that. If you are paying $.11-$.12/KWH it's more like $2.50 for a 20 KWH charge. No way a Metro could beat that. Used to own one by the way.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

cwerdna
Posts: 8397
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Cold weather longer charge times

Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:01 pm

johnlocke wrote:Even with CARE and Medical rates you are talking 15 cents a KWH.

OP might be unfamiliar with CARE (which apparently stands for California Alternate Rates for Energy). It's CA specific and for low income households/people only: http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=976.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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