Cold weather longer charge times

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groingo

Active member
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
30
My 2014 Leaf drives the exact same route and distance dally now 35,000 miles 12 bars but once the temperature dipped below 42 degrees I have lost over ten miles range but it now takes twice as long and twice the power to charge the car to do the same job, this is with the 110 charger.
I read a report on Lithium batteries in electric cars from MIT that cold temps will slow down the charging process because of increased resistance which makes sense.
At this point with the increased cost of power (power company PSE has increased rates 5 times this year alone) it is less expensive to drive my Geo Metro.
Dealer and Nissan USA no help, looks like one of those things they'd rather not talk about, car will be sold in spring.
 
Now, I'm no electrician or electrical engineer, but doesn't the traction battery pull the same amount of electricity from that 110 socket to fully charge - whether it's 70 degrees F. or 30 degrees F.? I mean sure, it takes longer due to the resistance, but the same amount of juice is sent into the batteries. Or am I wrong? Anyone else here who can enlighten us on this, please chime in. I also charge via 110 v.
 
The car will use more power while driving in cold weather due to higher rolling resistance, higher aerodynamic drag, and heater/defroster use. Therefore, it will require more energy from the wall to recharge. Higher internal resistance of the battery theoretically increases charging losses, but the resistance increase is not a lot so the net effect on charging energy is minimal. Level 2 (208 or240 volt) charging is more efficient than L1 so it is beneficial to use L2, if available.

Edited to add: You don't say where you are located and what power company you have, but I strongly doubt that the Geo Metro would be significantly less expensive to operate if all costs are accurately considered. With off-peak power rates and L2 charging, the electricity for my LEAF is less expensive than gasoline for my motorcycle. Also, a gasoline engine vehicle has more routine maintenance expense than an EV.
 
Am in Washington State with Puget Sound Energy, unfortunately they are a very greedy bunch and offer no off peak rates.
The Leaf is not only taking twice as long to charge but using twice the energy according to the meter which is a dedicated system exclusive for the car.
This all began back in September when temperatures dropped below 42 degrees and battery temp dropped from five to four bars which is where it has stayed.
I constantly get the snow flake on the dash, car is parked inside.
Dealer has checked car and charger all checked out, charger puts out 11.9 above 42 and 11.04 below, so it's definitely hitting a wall.
 
I doubt that there is anything wrong with your car. There is a certain amount of power required by the car to run auxiliary systems while charging so L2 is much more efficient because you get about four times the input power compared to L1 while the auxiliary power needs remain the same.
 
Puget Sound Energy's current residential rates are between 9 and 11 cents per kWh. That means an entire charge of your traction battery is about the cost of one gallon of gas. And proportionally less per day depending on how much of a total charge you actually use. I don't see any possible way you could be doing better than that in a Geo Metro.

https://pse.com/aboutpse/Rates/Documents/summ_elec_prices_2017_12_19.pdf
 
groingo said:
Am in Washington State with Puget Sound Energy, unfortunately they are a very greedy bunch and offer no off peak rates.
The Leaf is not only taking twice as long to charge but using twice the energy according to the meter which is a dedicated system exclusive for the car.
This all began back in September when temperatures dropped below 42 degrees and battery temp dropped from five to four bars which is where it has stayed.
I constantly get the snow flake on the dash, car is parked inside.
Dealer has checked car and charger all checked out, charger puts out 11.9 above 42 and 11.04 below, so it's definitely hitting a wall.

efficiency drops with temperature and that is true of all cars no matter what they run on. So cost is going up whether its electricity or gas.
 
groingo said:
Am in Washington State with Puget Sound Energy, unfortunately they are a very greedy bunch and offer no off peak rates.
You don't know greed until you've lived in areas of expensive electricity like PG&E (Pacific Gouge & Extort). See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=513907#p513907. Look at the E-1 link (non-TOU) and E-6 (TOU plan that I'm on) along w/what's considered baseline (tier 1).

There is an EV plan which isn't good for my usage patterns. See pages 1 and 4 of https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf.

You have it REALLY good on PSE, in comparison.
 
SDG&E rates start a 22.6 cents a KWH for tier 1 rates (first 400-500 KWH/mo) and go UP from there. tier 2 is 39.8 cents per KWH ( this what you are charging the car with typically). Summer rates are higher. Even with CARE and Medical rates you are talking 15 cents a KWH. Even at $.40/KWH and a 20 KWH charge, that's $8.00 for 70-80 mi. driving. A Metro with $3 gas could beat that. If you are paying $.11-$.12/KWH it's more like $2.50 for a 20 KWH charge. No way a Metro could beat that. Used to own one by the way.
 
johnlocke said:
Even with CARE and Medical rates you are talking 15 cents a KWH.
OP might be unfamiliar with CARE (which apparently stands for California Alternate Rates for Energy). It's CA specific and for low income households/people only: http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=976.
 
The battery has to be warmed during charging, when the air temperature is cooler. This uses more energy, the cooler it is outside.
 
cwerdna said:
johnlocke said:
Even with CARE and Medical rates you are talking 15 cents a KWH.
OP might be unfamiliar with CARE (which apparently stands for California Alternate Rates for Energy). It's CA specific and for low income households/people only: http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=976.
CARE rates apply to households with either low income or a member who is disabled. We qualify because my son is permanently disabled. In addition we qualify for Medical rates (larger baseline allowance and capped tier 2 rate). Even with those discounts, my rate is $.15/KWH. I have 16 KW of PV that produces 26,000 KWH annually. That gets me to essentially 0 consumption from SDG&E. I use a lot of power because I live on a 5 acre ranch where there aren't any sewers or city water. The house is all electric at this point except for the propane stove. I've reduced my propane and electric bills by $5000-$6000 annually. And yes, going solar was cheaper than paying SDG&E and Amerigas. Adding the Leaf to replace my Maxima saved me $3000-$4000 in gas annually depending on the price of gas. $8k-$10k/yr in savings pays for a lot of PV.
 
I am in CT, and have noticed SIGNIFICANTLY longer charging times during the recent cold snap where daytime highs have been in the teens and twenties and overnight lows around zero. Haven't measured them yet. This is with Level 1 charging.
 
I tried to opportunity charge at an L-2 station at a Chili's last night. Slow as molasses! It's frigid here too, but even with temps up in the teens it was only about 1/2 as fast as usual. I think I gained 5% charge in 20 minutes, when normally it would be 10%.
 
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