jonathanfields4ever
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:55 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Feb 2018
Location: Kyoto

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:12 pm

SageBrush wrote:Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity


If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.

I looked into the battery stuff and it seems like the complaints are overblown. The battery won't last as long as a Tesla's (their battery chemistry is fascinating), but it's not the disaster that people online seem to think. If anyone is interested, I'll try to find a link to a study I read about Leaf battery longevity.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9050
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:29 pm

The 30kwh battery problem isn't exaggerated - it depends on the local climate. Where it's almost always cool, the pack does fine. Where it isn't cool the degradation is unacceptable and rapid.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
Posts: 820
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:46 am

I would love to have the quick charge availability that they have in Japan. In fact, the degradation problem would have less of an impact. I can also understand why someone from there would not need the larger range batteries compared to us in the US. So, someone in Japan could have a very different view even just based on those two things.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

powersurge
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:51 am

jonathanfields4ever wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity


If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.

.


You can't argue a point with another that uses something that doesn't exist as their ideal (e.g, Tesla 3). The true time to evaluate the value of the T3 would be after 2 years after the car has been in drivers' hands. Right now, the Leaf is real, and the T3 is vaporware....

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13069
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:16 am

LeftieBiker wrote:The 30kwh battery problem isn't exaggerated - it depends on the local climate. Where it's almost always cool, the pack does fine. Where it isn't cool the degradation is unacceptable and rapid.


Not really. There are people in cool climates, NW Oregon, Minnesota for example that are seeing unacceptable rates of degradation. Climate matters but its only a part of the formula.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13069
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:31 am

jonathanfields4ever wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity


If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.

I looked into the battery stuff and it seems like the complaints are overblown. The battery won't last as long as a Tesla's (their battery chemistry is fascinating), but it's not the disaster that people online seem to think. If anyone is interested, I'll try to find a link to a study I read about Leaf battery longevity.


The issue is overblown because we know about a few dozen cars that represent a small number of LEAFs out there. No doubt there are ones we don't know about simply due to the large % the 12th bar represents and the fact that most don't need most of the range the LEAF offers on a regular basis so they simply are not aware enough to know they "should" be complaining.

But there IS an issue.

1) Nissan has failed to provide the uninformed driver the tools for proper BMS

2) We should have had 90% (or something less than full) as a DEFAULT charging option. Full charges along with the disclaimer reminders for those who need it and despite what we think, that is rare

3) Essentially part two of the above; DoD was too severe. We don't actually have a 30 kwh pack. In reality the jump was barely 5 kwh from the slightly larger than 24 kwh pack to the barely over 29½ kwh pack.

4) We can blame climate and it does play a role but not the primary role. Sadly, the primary role in degradation is human intervention. My dearly departed LEAF exhibited acceptable degradation (1-2 % per 10,000 miles) in the same region where other LEAFs had 3-5X the rate of degradation. I was well on my way to eliminating a lot of the suspects in the degradation game. There is huge benefits to living in the middle of the pack. That is inconvenient for sure, but I drove over 26,000 miles in the first year doing exactly that including a period of over 7 weeks where I NEVER charged to full on L2 one single time. It was during the hottest part of Summer when the major components of degradation were at their peak; High SOC, time and heat.


So my choices as I see it;

*Pay for a manufacturers well managed BMS with custom charging options based on the current need and a little more range. Estimated cost; $10,000+

*Get a LEAF with less range, less convenient charging (although the inconvenience isn't that bad in my area) more tech for MUCH less money and manually handle the BMS chores myself since there is no help coming from Nissan.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

powersurge
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:57 am

Bravo.... DaveinOlyWA ...

SageBrush
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:28 am

jonathanfields4ever wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity


If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.
.

You have it backwards. I only cared to correct the silly posts like yours that label the Tesla Model 3 a 'luxury car' when it is smack dab in the middle of the msrp range of the LEAF '18 yet offers so much more value in terms of range, charging and battery quality.

Beyond that, I applaud every person who buys an EV, particularly if you run it with clean energy.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:39 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:The issue is overblown because we know about a few dozen cars
So my choices as I see it;

*Pay for a manufacturers well managed BMS with custom charging options based on the current need and a little more range. Estimated cost; $10,000+

You wear blinders. The 30 kWh pack is doing worse than the 24 kWh pack, and the 24 kWh sucked for almost everybody outside of cool climates. That is magnitudes more than a few dozen cars.

The Tesla Model 3 is $36k and will retain 80-90% of its new range in 15 years if it follows in the footsteps of its brethren. That is more than 2x longer than the 24 kwh LEAF, let alone the 30 kWh LEAF which is worse. AND it starts out with 46% greater range than the 40 kWh LEAF '18. AND it has a markedly superior QC availability and charge rate. It is beyond laughable to suggest that the LEAF gives anywhere near the value as the Model 3 or that it is inexpensive compared to the Model 3 on a per mile basis.

You want to lease a Nissan ? Go right ahead. All the best. But cut the BS
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13069
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:The issue is overblown because we know about a few dozen cars
So my choices as I see it;

*Pay for a manufacturers well managed BMS with custom charging options based on the current need and a little more range. Estimated cost; $10,000+

You wear blinders. The 30 kWh pack is doing worse than the 24 kWh pack, and the 24 kWh sucked for almost everybody outside of cool climates. That is magnitudes more than a few dozen cars.

The Tesla Model 3 is $36k and will retain 80-90% of its new range in 15 years if it follows in the footsteps of its brethren. That is more than 2x longer than the 24 kwh LEAF, let alone the 30 kWh LEAF which is worse. AND it starts out with 46% greater range than the 40 kWh LEAF '18. AND it has a markedly superior QC availability and charge rate. It is beyond laughable to suggest that the LEAF gives anywhere near the value as the Model 3 or that it is inexpensive compared to the Model 3 on a per mile basis.

You want to buy a Nissan ? Go right ahead. All the best. But cut the BS


All your comments are predicated on the assumption that we all "need" 200 miles of range. Whose BS is deeper?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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