SageBrush
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:02 pm

GRA wrote:If being

You caused me to wonder what I would call piss poor business practices or egregious examples of over promise, under deliver and I realized I didn't have to look far. This IS the place for discussion of the Nissan LEAF, after all.

Which is probably why I find your comments so ridiculous. You ignore the elephant and choke on the gnat.

In case your memory is selective AND impaired, let me remind you of the Nissan promise in 2011: 10 years of battery use down to 70% capacity.

Re: CCS
Why are you counting from today ? Why are you giving them another year of leeway ? Even you must see the hypocrisy and double standard in your opinions.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 9113
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:14 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:If being

You caused me to wonder what I would call piss poor business practices or egregious examples of over promise, under deliver and I realized I didn't have to look far. This IS the place for discussion of the Nissan LEAF, after all.

Which is probably why I find your comments so ridiculous. You ignore the elephant and choke on the gnat.

In case your memory is selective AND impaired, let me remind you of the Nissan promise in 2011: 10 years of battery use down to 70% capacity.

I pay attention to claims versus results. Tesla's claims have always been seriously over-optimistic when it comes to schedules, and some of their other decision have been bad. I've also criticized Nissan heavily and at length for their batteries and their treatment of early adopters. I've also praised them and others when they do something good, e.g. crediting Tesla with more or less single-handedly making BEVs cool and practical for other than the usual fringe groups, and being primarily responsible for making the switch to EVs unstoppable. But I give no one a free pass, and will criticize them if I feel they are acting irresponsibly, stupidly or both.

SageBrush wrote:Re: CCS
Why are you counting from today ? Why are you giving them another year of leeway ? Even you must see the hypocrisy and double standard in your opinions.

Because they just opened the first ones last month (just as Tesla opened the first four SCs on Nov. [Edit: Oct.] 19th, 2012). What date should I start from? More importantly, I'll judge them by how well they meet their own schedules.


[Edited to correct a couple of typos]
Last edited by GRA on Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:17 pm

GRA wrote: I'll judge them by how well they meet their own schedules.

Good. It is way past time for you to become informed of their published schedules.

So, you have been critical of Nissan. If you say so. Why have you stopped ? Once a promise is fulfilled, does it drop off your plate ? Has the Nissan LEAF promise been fulfilled, albeit 7 years late ?

I'm tired of your double standard BS. Welcome to my ignore list.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jonathanfields4ever
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:55 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Feb 2018
Location: Kyoto

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:46 pm

Wow. Sage got upset that someone was being totally reasonable while disagreeing with him and put them on the ignore list. What a totally unexpected thing to have happen.

WetEV
Posts: 2258
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:59 am

jonathanfields4ever wrote:Wow. Sage got upset that someone was being totally reasonable while disagreeing with him and put them on the ignore list. What a totally unexpected thing to have happen.


Shocked, shocked.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

finman100
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:42 am
Delivery Date: 06 Jun 2014
Location: Albany, OR

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:03 am

Just how is that Nissan Fast Charge network coming along? Really?

and the battery degradation lawsuits? yeah, thought so.


So over it. ONE company is doing everything they can to bring about sustainable transport. The others? Just falling further behind the EV curve.

Oh well.

Carry on with your FUD. it's pretty entertaining.
Albany, Oregon
2014 Silver SV with charge/LED package. June 2014, I'm in the EV game!
46,000 miles
17.5 kWh on 100% charge (51-ish Ah), down 1 bar
4.2 miles/kWh average
Best trip: all of 'em. They're all no-gas!

iPlug
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:21 pm

finman100 wrote:Just how is that Nissan Fast Charge network coming along?


This was just answered in this thread with specific numbers yesterday. Do you disagree with the numbers CHAdeMO reported?
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (16 MWh/yr actual production), Clipper Creek Level-2 7.7 kW charging stations x2, 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater

SageBrush
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:28 pm

iPlug wrote:
finman100 wrote:Just how is that Nissan Fast Charge network coming along?


This was just answered in this thread with specific numbers yesterday. Do you disagree with the numbers CHAdeMO reported?

I think they are accurate, but misleading since Japan is heavily over-represented. Compare networks outside Japan and the ChadeMo network fades. Compare networks outside urban centers and the ChadeMo network is hard to find. Adjust for malfunctioning stations. Uggh. Adjust for 45 kW charge rates (at best) and the ChadeMo network ... sucks.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:47 pm

SageBrush wrote:I think they are accurate, but misleading since Japan is heavily over-represented. Compare networks outside Japan and the ChadeMo network fades. Compare networks outside urban centers and the ChadeMo network is hard to find. Adjust for malfunctioning stations. Uggh. Adjust for 45 kW charge rates (at best) and the ChadeMo network ... sucks.


Agree, CHAdeMO is not for everyone. In my suburban neck/region of the woods and where I travel, there are many times more useable CHAdeMO locations than Tesla Supercharging locations. Although more prevalent in urban areas, there are plenty of CHAdeMO stations on the west coast in between urban centers. As they say, YMMV.

All the players relatively neglect the "fly over" areas, though Tesla does a much better job in these areas to support long distance travel.

Yes, the CHAdeMO blanket in Japan is quite dense. Are there numbers for Tesla and CCS in just North America to compare with CHAdeMO?

Agree, would be helpful to get CHAdeMO charge rates up 2-10x and of course vehicles that can charge at that rate.
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (16 MWh/yr actual production), Clipper Creek Level-2 7.7 kW charging stations x2, 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater

SageBrush
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:09 pm

Urban centric ChadeMo and throttled LEAFs ...
Is there really anything to discuss here ? It is obvious that ChadeMo cars are not suitable for long distance travel.

I'd go so far as to characterize ChadeMo as a fast destination charger. Typically out of the way and/or expensive so not widely used and fairly useless. Five years ago I thought ChadeMo had a smart idea: enable EV metropolitan travel in a city radius of 50 miles. It has failed in the US, in part for reasons that I should have seen and in part by the advance of technology and 250+ mile range EV cars.

    Bottom line: 50 L2 stations spread out over an area are a lot more useful as destination chargers than one ChadeMo.
    Second bottom line: TRUE high speed highway chargers are 100x more useful to modern EVs than a million destination chargers. I've thought about my future use of chargers in my Tesla and I realize that if public destination chargers ceased to exist tomorrow I would be at worse mildly inconvenienced. That is a death knell for ChadeMo: it is too expensive and not fast enough
    One last point: My Tesla charges at up to 48 Amps on L2 using an EVSE Tesla sells for ~ $500. Compare that to the cost of a ChadeMo station that will charge a warmed up battery LEAF at about twice the speed. The cheap Tesla L2 provides me enough range in a short time to reach a SuperCharger if needed. That is an awesome solution.
Last edited by SageBrush on Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:06 pm, edited 7 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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