iPlug
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:40 am

Agree. Tesla remains in the enviable position of being able to sell high margin, higher trim versions. As long as they can continue to do that we will probably not see any $35k SR models in any significant quantity.

Imagine if there was a long waiting list for the Leaf SL trim. Doubt Nissan would have any lowest trim “S” versions available in any significant quantity until SL trim demand abated.

If the federal tax credits get extended this will be excellent for Tesla and those holding out for that $35k SR.
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (16 MWh/yr actual production), Clipper Creek 7.7 kW charging stations x2, 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Variable Speed Pool Pump

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SalisburySam
Gold Member
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 24 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 018156
Location: Salisbury, NC

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:14 am

iPlug wrote:Can any former or current Leaf drivers who also are current model 3 drivers comment on the difference in their auto insurance costs?


2012 LEAF SL and Tesla 2018 Model 3, both purchased new. Insurance for identical coverages is marginally different (<10%) higher for the newer vehicle with 50% higher acquisition cost and little repair history. As others have mentioned, lots of factors involved based on the vehicles themselves, the driver(s), the location, and the vehicle's use. In other threads and forums, Model 3 insurance costs are not significantly higher than other cars and frequently the same and sometimes lower, especially after the recent all-perfect safety ratings of the Model 3.
Nissan 2012 LEAF SL Super Black
12,900 miles, 10 bars showing, 75% SOH, 49.80 Ahr

Tesla Model 3 - Basic Black | Long Range | Premium Upgrade Package | Extended AutoPilot | Full Self-Driving
Delivered: July 19, 2018 | 4,900 miles

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:24 pm

iPlug wrote:Can any former or current Leaf drivers who also are current model 3 drivers comment on the difference in their auto insurance costs?


Since you're just looking for data: back in April, when I was still debating on whether or not to go through with my reservation, I got a quote from Costco/Ameriprise for exactly that. They actually quoted the 2018 Leaf S as $10 more than the model 3 (~$500 / 6 months for full coverage for a 40+ yo male).

Hope this helps!
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

jonathanfields4ever
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:55 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Feb 2018
Location: Kyoto

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:51 pm

Zythryn wrote:The current estimate is another 6-7 months. As Tesla is still production limited, and they have enough demand for all the LR versions they can build, they are focusing on those.

Perhaps if some of the FUD subsides, some pressure will be taken off Tesla's finances and they can build the lower margin SR car.


I don’t expect that will happen. There are a lot of people shorting Tesla and a whole heck of a lot of people who just don’t like electric cars. It sucks. I really hope they can hold out.

jonathanfields4ever
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:55 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Feb 2018
Location: Kyoto

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:41 pm

The LEAF E-Plus price has apparently leaked. MSRP of $35,400. Goes into production in January with LG Chem battery. Available in Japan at the beginning of Q1, in America at the end of Q1. Should make things interesting.

cwerdna
Posts: 8405
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:21 am

jonathanfields4ever wrote:The LEAF E-Plus price has apparently leaked. MSRP of $35,400. Goes into production in January with LG Chem battery. Available in Japan at the beginning of Q1, in America at the end of Q1. Should make things interesting.

Still sounds like rumor and yes I've skimmed them. Pricing is plausible. I still wonder about LG Chem and the rest of the rumors.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2926
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:06 am

cwerdna wrote:
jonathanfields4ever wrote:The LEAF E-Plus price has apparently leaked. MSRP of $35,400. Goes into production in January with LG Chem battery. Available in Japan at the beginning of Q1, in America at the end of Q1. Should make things interesting.

Still sounds like rumor and yes I've skimmed them. Pricing is plausible. I still wonder about LG Chem and the rest of the rumors.

I expect the $36k offer (if true) to be the stripped econo-box people turn their nose up at and view the $40k model as the price to comparison shop.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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SalisburySam
Gold Member
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 24 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 018156
Location: Salisbury, NC

An additional factor for the Comparison Table?

Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:28 am

I finally took the time to read this entire thread, and personal insults aside, it is entertaining and amazing in how different things are today only 9 months after the thread’s creation.

I got onto the EV path with the registration for the 2011 Nissan LEAF SL back in early 2010 with my $99 deposit. I took delivery in February 2012 of MY2012 and was very pleased with the upgrades that had been made from the 2011 I thought I’d be getting. Note that the registration-to-delivery time was a very long 22 months...almost two years! I’d never bought a car before with such a crazy acquisition method but I really wanted an actual EV and this was the chance.

This year my wife and I decided to abandon ICE vehicles (with the exception of our 1964 Thunderbird) and replace our 2014 Toyota Venza with a Model 3. We registered ($1000 this time, an order of magnitude increase over my LEAF experience), in April and took delivery of the exact vehicle we wanted mid-July. Note that this registration-to-deliver time was a comparably quick 3 months.

We have very much enjoyed our LEAF and its maintenance cost approaching zero ($199 to upgrade the telematics unit, about $40 to replace the cabin filter a couple of time done by me, one brake fluid replacement for under $100, maybe $50 for ongoing wiper blades, $140 for Ingineer’s incredible heater by-pass mod for the HVAC controller to enable pure ventilation) for almost 7 years. The only negative: we can’t really go anywhere in it with its current 45-mile average range. We’re not going to sink $8500 into it for a new battery, and it isn’t worth much on the market, so we’re keeping it as a 2nd car for around town. For that it’s still worth the annual property tax, EV fee of $130 (thanks North Carolina for both), and insurance.

And then there’s my Model 3. After about 3200 miles since delivery, I’ve not ever owned a car I’ve enjoyed as much, including some late-60’s and early-70’s Corvettes, and even the wonderfully fun 1964 T-Bird. So those are my experiences and I’m sticking by them regardless of real or alternate facts proposed by others.

However, there’s at least one factor not mentioned anywhere in this thread so I thought I’d add some raw meat to chew on: the dealership experience. Over decades of buying 23 vehicles, mostly new, I’ve not once left a dealership saying: “Gosh, that was a great and fabulous way to spend a few hours!” Nor have I ever thought: “Boy, I really got the best deal possible all in!” I loathe the waiting while the sales agent confers with their “managers” for special approvals, the trade-in banter, the mandatory trip behind the curtains with the finance dude or dudette (even when paying in full in cash) for the “opportunity” to buy gap coverage (er, for paying cash?), extended warranties, and on and on. In one case, it got so frustrating trying to actually buy a Lincoln we just walked out.

GM’s Saturn dealership model eliminated the pricing annoyance, but you still had to endure all the silliness with the finance folks.

O Great Day for me and people like me, assuming there are any! I can (and did) buy a Model 3 withOUT all of that grief...at home...on my porch...on a gorgeous Spring day...sitting at my iPad...having a shaken very dry vodka martini with olives...picking and choosing options...email signing some forms. For me, this lack of a dealership gauntlet to negotiate was a very key element in our Tesla decision. Having done that once, I really, really do not want to ever buy a new vehicle any other way.

I know this factor, the acquisition experience, is not a part of the OP comparison table, but for us it was an important discriminator that I haven’t seen mentioned. Maybe only important to me, and that’s fine.
Nissan 2012 LEAF SL Super Black
12,900 miles, 10 bars showing, 75% SOH, 49.80 Ahr

Tesla Model 3 - Basic Black | Long Range | Premium Upgrade Package | Extended AutoPilot | Full Self-Driving
Delivered: July 19, 2018 | 4,900 miles

GRA
Posts: 9518
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: An additional factor for the Comparison Table?

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:33 pm

SalisburySam wrote:However, there’s at least one factor not mentioned anywhere in this thread so I thought I’d add some raw meat to chew on: the dealership experience. Over decades of buying 23 vehicles, mostly new, I’ve not once left a dealership saying: “Gosh, that was a great and fabulous way to spend a few hours!” Nor have I ever thought: “Boy, I really got the best deal possible all in!” I loathe the waiting while the sales agent confers with their “managers” for special approvals, the trade-in banter, the mandatory trip behind the curtains with the finance dude or dudette (even when paying in full in cash) for the “opportunity” to buy gap coverage (er, for paying cash?), extended warranties, and on and on. In one case, it got so frustrating trying to actually buy a Lincoln we just walked out.

GM’s Saturn dealership model eliminated the pricing annoyance, but you still had to endure all the silliness with the finance folks.

O Great Day for me and people like me, assuming there are any! I can (and did) buy a Model 3 withOUT all of that grief...at home...on my porch...on a gorgeous Spring day...sitting at my iPad...having a shaken very dry vodka martini with olives...picking and choosing options...email signing some forms. For me, this lack of a dealership gauntlet to negotiate was a very key element in our Tesla decision. Having done that once, I really, really do not want to ever buy a new vehicle any other way.

I know this factor, the acquisition experience, is not a part of the OP comparison table, but for us it was an important discriminator that I haven’t seen mentioned. Maybe only important to me, and that’s fine.

I think you'll find that lots of people share your view. I've always paid cash for my cars, and knew going in exactly what car with what options I wanted and what the invoice prices are and any hidden incentives, having spent several months winnowing down the potential list. The fact that I know more about the car than the salescritter also helps.

After that, it's a matter of contacting different dealers for written price quotes, with everything included ($500 doc fee? What are you people smoking?). Any dealer who doesn't comply gets scratched. While I don't get the best possible deal because I am not willing to spend time haggling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u75XQdTxZRc

it cuts the aggravation way down. Using all of the above, I've had relatively painless dealer experiences. It's not as easy as doing it all over the internet, but increasingly people are simply no longer willing to put up with the dealership B.S. and have the info available to avoid most of it. However, I expect in the not too distant future most urban residents will no longer buy cars, but use mobility as a service instead. Then we can spend our time on the net comparing the details of opaque service plans instead :D
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 8405
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: An additional factor for the Comparison Table?

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:24 pm

SalisburySam wrote:However, there’s at least one factor not mentioned anywhere in this thread so I thought I’d add some raw meat to chew on: the dealership experience. Over decades of buying 23 vehicles, mostly new, I’ve not once left a dealership saying: “Gosh, that was a great and fabulous way to spend a few hours!” Nor have I ever thought: “Boy, I really got the best deal possible all in!” I loathe the waiting while the sales agent confers with their “managers” for special approvals, the trade-in banter, the mandatory trip behind the curtains with the finance dude or dudette (even when paying in full in cash) for the “opportunity” to buy gap coverage (er, for paying cash?), extended warranties, and on and on. In one case, it got so frustrating trying to actually buy a Lincoln we just walked out.

GM’s Saturn dealership model eliminated the pricing annoyance, but you still had to endure all the silliness with the finance folks.

O Great Day for me and people like me, assuming there are any! I can (and did) buy a Model 3 withOUT all of that grief...at home...on my porch...on a gorgeous Spring day...sitting at my iPad...having a shaken very dry vodka martini with olives...picking and choosing options...email signing some forms. For me, this lack of a dealership gauntlet to negotiate was a very key element in our Tesla decision. Having done that once, I really, really do not want to ever buy a new vehicle any other way.

I know this factor, the acquisition experience, is not a part of the OP comparison table, but for us it was an important discriminator that I haven’t seen mentioned. Maybe only important to me, and that’s fine.

Although the dealership experience can range from terrible to ok to good (I've had mostly good), Tesla's Model 3 delivery experience is all over the map. Some folks at my work had no issue (I haven't talked to many of them) but one had their vehicle scratched by the delivery person so it's been in the shop for weeks (!) to get that fixed. Another person had some delays.

A ton of people who have reserved 3's have been jerked around (e.g. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ad.129612/, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ter.132661, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... es.130826/ and a whole bunch of "waiting room" threads). While some folks have had the ordeal of cancellation, unknowns, etc. and are in the midst of those, a coworker ordered on a Tuesday, got a call Wednesday saying he could pick up as early as Sunday but since he was already going to be out of town (planned before), he picked up the following Wednesday. This was in early September 2018. This was all while others (usually outside the Bay Area) have been annoyed to pissed off w/the waiting game, missed dates, delivery specialists being MIA, etc.

Another guy at work got an email at 6 pm on Friday to go to https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-hun ... k-inbound/. He'd had a P3D on order for awhile and saw no movement. He scrambled to show up in the Saturday morning expecting to get nothing. He did drive away with a P3D that matched what he wanted w/a numerous exterior assembly defects (e.g. misaligned trunk, weird rear glass alignment probs, etc.)

One problem w/Tesla's model is that there's really no room for negotiation other than maybe the used car/trade in valuation or some discounts for inventory cars. The price is the price. If you paid MSRP at a dealer or whatever they were asking, you'd skip the negotiation step. Toyota Sunnyvale tends to openly advertise decent prices and when I last helped someone car shop there, they weren't really willing to budge.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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