DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13327
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:01 am

Equating the dealership experience to the manufacturer is a crap shoot. Having leased from 3 different dealers on my first 3 LEAFs, I ended going back to the 3rd one for my 4th despite them being located roughly 73 miles farther away than dealer #2 simply because it truly is and was a wonderful dealership experience.

I am not alone in this evaluation. Ray Raied Ishak at Everett Nissan is a joy to work with. On both my LEAF leases, the price was negotiated over FB IM and both times he hit his promised target within one dollar.

So you might have had fun with your Tesla transfer experience, but I had fun as well and saved thousands of dollars.

Now, nothing I said changes my mind about Tesla or the T3 which I still think (in SR form) is the best dollar for dollar purchase in the EV market today...(if it was a day that the SR was on sale)

In reality, as long as its an EV, its all good.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tattoogunman
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2016
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: An additional factor for the Comparison Table?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:17 am

cwerdna wrote:
SalisburySam wrote:However, there’s at least one factor not mentioned anywhere in this thread so I thought I’d add some raw meat to chew on: the dealership experience. Over decades of buying 23 vehicles, mostly new, I’ve not once left a dealership saying: “Gosh, that was a great and fabulous way to spend a few hours!” Nor have I ever thought: “Boy, I really got the best deal possible all in!” I loathe the waiting while the sales agent confers with their “managers” for special approvals, the trade-in banter, the mandatory trip behind the curtains with the finance dude or dudette (even when paying in full in cash) for the “opportunity” to buy gap coverage (er, for paying cash?), extended warranties, and on and on. In one case, it got so frustrating trying to actually buy a Lincoln we just walked out.

GM’s Saturn dealership model eliminated the pricing annoyance, but you still had to endure all the silliness with the finance folks.

O Great Day for me and people like me, assuming there are any! I can (and did) buy a Model 3 withOUT all of that grief...at home...on my porch...on a gorgeous Spring day...sitting at my iPad...having a shaken very dry vodka martini with olives...picking and choosing options...email signing some forms. For me, this lack of a dealership gauntlet to negotiate was a very key element in our Tesla decision. Having done that once, I really, really do not want to ever buy a new vehicle any other way.

I know this factor, the acquisition experience, is not a part of the OP comparison table, but for us it was an important discriminator that I haven’t seen mentioned. Maybe only important to me, and that’s fine.

Although the dealership experience can range from terrible to ok to good (I've had mostly good), Tesla's Model 3 delivery experience is all over the map. Some folks at my work had no issue (I haven't talked to many of them) but one had their vehicle scratched by the delivery person so it's been in the shop for weeks (!) to get that fixed. Another person had some delays.

A ton of people who have reserved 3's have been jerked around (e.g. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ad.129612/, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ter.132661, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... es.130826/ and a whole bunch of "waiting room" threads). While some folks have had the ordeal of cancellation, unknowns, etc. and are in the midst of those, a coworker ordered on a Tuesday, got a call Wednesday saying he could pick up as early as Sunday but since he was already going to be out of town (planned before), he picked up the following Wednesday. This was in early September 2018. This was all while others (usually outside the Bay Area) have been annoyed to pissed off w/the waiting game, missed dates, delivery specialists being MIA, etc.

Another guy at work got an email at 6 pm on Friday to go to https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-hun ... k-inbound/. He'd had a P3D on order for awhile and saw no movement. He scrambled to show up in the Saturday morning expecting to get nothing. He did drive away with a P3D that matched what he wanted w/a numerous exterior assembly defects (e.g. misaligned trunk, weird rear glass alignment probs, etc.)

One problem w/Tesla's model is that there's really no room for negotiation other than maybe the used car/trade in valuation or some discounts for inventory cars. The price is the price. If you paid MSRP at a dealer or whatever they were asking, you'd skip the negotiation step. Toyota Sunnyvale tends to openly advertise decent prices and when I last helped someone car shop there, they weren't really willing to budge.


I agree and it's why I've often wondered at why Tesla is as successful in its sales model as it is. If anyone else walked into a dealership today and paid the sticker price for a car, everyone would be telling them what an idiot they were. If someone says they ordered a Tesla online for the sticker price, everyone pats them on the back and says "well done".

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: An additional factor for the Comparison Table?

Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:03 am

tattoogunman wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
SalisburySam wrote:However, there’s at least one factor not mentioned anywhere in this thread so I thought I’d add some raw meat to chew on: the dealership experience. Over decades of buying 23 vehicles, mostly new, I’ve not once left a dealership saying: “Gosh, that was a great and fabulous way to spend a few hours!” Nor have I ever thought: “Boy, I really got the best deal possible all in!” I loathe the waiting while the sales agent confers with their “managers” for special approvals, the trade-in banter, the mandatory trip behind the curtains with the finance dude or dudette (even when paying in full in cash) for the “opportunity” to buy gap coverage (er, for paying cash?), extended warranties, and on and on. In one case, it got so frustrating trying to actually buy a Lincoln we just walked out.

GM’s Saturn dealership model eliminated the pricing annoyance, but you still had to endure all the silliness with the finance folks.

O Great Day for me and people like me, assuming there are any! I can (and did) buy a Model 3 withOUT all of that grief...at home...on my porch...on a gorgeous Spring day...sitting at my iPad...having a shaken very dry vodka martini with olives...picking and choosing options...email signing some forms. For me, this lack of a dealership gauntlet to negotiate was a very key element in our Tesla decision. Having done that once, I really, really do not want to ever buy a new vehicle any other way.

I know this factor, the acquisition experience, is not a part of the OP comparison table, but for us it was an important discriminator that I haven’t seen mentioned. Maybe only important to me, and that’s fine.

Although the dealership experience can range from terrible to ok to good (I've had mostly good), Tesla's Model 3 delivery experience is all over the map. Some folks at my work had no issue (I haven't talked to many of them) but one had their vehicle scratched by the delivery person so it's been in the shop for weeks (!) to get that fixed. Another person had some delays.

A ton of people who have reserved 3's have been jerked around (e.g. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ad.129612/, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ter.132661, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... es.130826/ and a whole bunch of "waiting room" threads). While some folks have had the ordeal of cancellation, unknowns, etc. and are in the midst of those, a coworker ordered on a Tuesday, got a call Wednesday saying he could pick up as early as Sunday but since he was already going to be out of town (planned before), he picked up the following Wednesday. This was in early September 2018. This was all while others (usually outside the Bay Area) have been annoyed to pissed off w/the waiting game, missed dates, delivery specialists being MIA, etc.

Another guy at work got an email at 6 pm on Friday to go to https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-hun ... k-inbound/. He'd had a P3D on order for awhile and saw no movement. He scrambled to show up in the Saturday morning expecting to get nothing. He did drive away with a P3D that matched what he wanted w/a numerous exterior assembly defects (e.g. misaligned trunk, weird rear glass alignment probs, etc.)

One problem w/Tesla's model is that there's really no room for negotiation other than maybe the used car/trade in valuation or some discounts for inventory cars. The price is the price. If you paid MSRP at a dealer or whatever they were asking, you'd skip the negotiation step. Toyota Sunnyvale tends to openly advertise decent prices and when I last helped someone car shop there, they weren't really willing to budge.


I agree and it's why I've often wondered at why Tesla is as successful in its sales model as it is. If anyone else walked into a dealership today and paid the sticker price for a car, everyone would be telling them what an idiot they were. If someone says they ordered a Tesla online for the sticker price, everyone pats them on the back and says "well done".


you're insinuating that we're just all fanboys?

Saturn had pretty good success with fixed pricing. People just don't like haggling, but they don't like being ripped off either. If everyone pays the same price, then it's fair for all.

It's not that Tesla's model treats us all as chumps (since everyone expects a product manufacturer to make some profit), it's that the franchise dealership model introduces a rent seeking middleman that everyone wants to minimize in their car buying math.

it's the farmer's market vs. grocery store model.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
Date - Miles / GIDs:
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363
Feb '18 - 20.5k mi / 333

blimpy
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:36 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2014

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:33 pm

Any comparison between the Leaf and the Tesla... should include the number of Vehicle Fires !

It is impossible to find an incinerated Leaf... while the internet abounds with pictures and stories of Teslas burned right down to the
ground.

The gazillion cell pack architecture.. as well as some other poor engineering factors are involved.

The whole Tesla mindset seems to be the electrical equivalent of the Gas Guzzler..
and the driving behavior of many Tesla owners follows suit.

The other factor in favor of the Leaf is progressive development and longevity of the platform
Ala VW. No one knows what the leaf will be when it is self driving enabled.. but the basis of the platform
is extremely well proven, and safe.

Heated seats and wheel are extremely common on SVs... perhaps as options.. but hard to find an example without them.
2016 SV purchased 11/2/16 With Subsidies From Sonoma Clean Power, North Sonoma Air Pollution Control District, Evergreen, and State of California, and $15,000 in discounts from Jim Bone Nissan Santa Rosa California. :D Color Me GRATEFUL Long Time Coming !

SageBrush
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:39 pm

blimpy wrote:Any comparison between the Leaf and the Tesla... should include the number of Vehicle Fires !

Do you own an ICE vehicle ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Return to “Website/Forum Discussions”