SageBrush
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:11 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:All your comments are predicated on the assumption that we all "need" 200 miles of range.

There is merit to that statement, inasmuch as I view the Model 3 as a full time, complete ICE replacement.

Superchargers are in general (after correcting for terrain) placed ~ 125 miles apart;
Winter and non-dry roads increase fuel consumption a good 20%;
Even a long lived Tesla can be expected to have 10% battery range degradation after 10 years of ownership

You may make do with less along with a daily quality time spent at a ChaDemo, but the depreciation rate on your car tells the tale.
Remind me again what your monthly and down payments are going to be on your LEAF '18, *with* your employee discount ?
As an aside, the '18 LEAF can certainly fill the role of a secondary car in the family quite well ... but I can attest to a markedly cheaper and depreciated 2013 LEAF doing the job just as well.

And so long as you care to highlight predicated assumptions, I'll list yours:
1. Cool, maritime climate
2. Extensive ChaDemo infrastructure
3. Willingness to QC at ~ 40 kW
4. Lease (so that the anticipated battery degradation is Nissan's problem.)
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12975
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:36 am

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:All your comments are predicated on the assumption that we all "need" 200 miles of range.

There is merit to that statement, inasmuch as I view the Model 3 as a full time, complete ICE replacement.

Superchargers are in general (after correcting for terrain) placed ~ 125 miles apart;
Winter and non-dry roads increase fuel consumption a good 20%;
Even a long lived Tesla can be expected to have 10% battery range degradation after 10 years of ownership

You may make do with less along with a daily quality time spent at a ChaDemo, but the depreciation rate on your car tells the tale.
Remind me again what your monthly and down payments are going to be on your LEAF '18, *with* your employee discount ?
As an aside, the '18 LEAF can certainly fill the role of a secondary car in the family quite well ... but I can attest to a markedly cheaper and depreciated 2013 LEAF doing the job just as well.



No lease terms yet so who knows? The reality is this whole thread is baseless. We already knew the two cars occupy completely different spaces sharing only their method of motivation.

You would be blind to not see the LEAF SV with tech will cost in the mid 20's while the base level T3 WILL BE $36,200 and likely with half a fed credit (I don't even qualify for that much) so my contention the LEAF with more features is more than $10,000 cheaper "to me" stands and you will have proof shortly.

In my review of the T3, I stated its THE only EV on the market today that is worth the asking MSRP. The only one. The Bolt is overpriced just as the LEAF is but then again, neither sells for MSRP either. So if you got the money, do Tesla. The T3 has huge benefits and huge compromises. The LEAF is no different. But neither is any car of any type. We trade this for that, acquiesce convenience for cash, etc. That is how it works.

But extrapolating expectations based on a very different LEAF to the current LEAF is a bit over the top. I am doing the same thing assuming the 40 kwh LEAF will be just as fine as my 30 kwh LEAF was. I am confident I can handle it. Is there a need for anything else?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:51 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:No lease terms yet so who knows?

Google knows, because Nissan is advertising:

LEAF SV
$356 a month
36 month term
$3,979 Down payment
---
$16,439
$456 a month before TTL, excess wear and tear, acquisition, return, and dealer fees.
https://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf- ... onth-4000/



--------
The stripper 'S' Model is $229 a month and otherwise the same terms.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 760
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:09 am

powersurge wrote:You can't argue a point with another that uses something that doesn't exist as their ideal (e.g, Tesla 3). The true time to evaluate the value of the T3 would be after 2 years after the car has been in drivers' hands. Right now, the Leaf is real, and the T3 is vaporware....
:?: You really need a reality check. You lose any remaining credibility with such silly statements.

In the US, the 3 is already in the hands of (non-employee) customers. Mine would have probably been scheduled for delivery next week had I placed the order on Jan 4 when I got the invite. The 2018 LEAF is temporarily delayed, but should be in customer's hands this month.
Last edited by jlv on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 31K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 20K mi
Model 3 reservation (invited to order 1/18)

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12975
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:15 am

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:No lease terms yet so who knows?

Google knows, because Nissan is advertising:

LEAF SV
$356 a month
36 month term
$3,979 Down payment
---
$16,439
$456 a month before TTL, excess wear and tear, acquisition, return, and dealer fees.
https://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf- ... onth-4000/



--------
The 'S' Model is $229 a month and otherwise the same terms.


That info is no more valid than the listed MSRP
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:32 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:That info is no more valid than the listed MSRP

No two ways about it: you and Powersurge live in a delusion.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

SageBrush
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:40 am

Tesla estimated delivery dates for me--
Colorado resident, neither employee or current owner

Image




You can always be suspect of Tesla estimates, but this photo (from yesterday I think) is of rows of Model 3s in Denver before they are delivered to customers.

Image
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

edatoakrun
Posts: 5199
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:41 am

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:That info is no more valid than the listed MSRP

No two ways about it: you and Powersurge live in a delusion.

This entire thread ha been a delusional exercise, in that a Tesla Model 3 SR does not actually exists at this time.
no condition is permanent

jonathanfields4ever
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:55 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Feb 2018
Location: Kyoto

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:07 pm

SageBrush wrote:
jonathanfields4ever wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Good luck with your '18 LEAF. I hope I am wrong about its battery longevity


If you decide you want to have a discussion about these two EVs and not just attack people who like the Leaf or lease vehicles, let us know.
.

You have it backwards. I only cared to correct the silly posts like yours that label the Tesla Model 3 a 'luxury car' when it is smack dab in the middle of the msrp range of the LEAF '18 yet offers so much more value in terms of range, charging and battery quality.

Beyond that, I applaud every person who buys an EV, particularly if you run it with clean energy.


I never said it was a “luxury vehicle.” In fact, I said it was silly to call it that if you look back at my post.

I offered evidence of getting a new Leaf for $7K less than a Model 3, but you didn’t like that because I’m in a different country.

So I pointed out that some people would prefer a car available much sooner for a few thousand less, making the Leaf a decent option over the Model 3. You said I shouldn’t “complain” about availability when I could have reserved sooner and gave us a vague statement about the window for getting yours “..in 2018.”

So I asked what that window was and pointed out that giving Tesla, a company famous for missing deadlines and billions in debt, a thousand dollars is a big ask. You responded by basically calling me poor.

Now it comes out that your car is coming between September and November thus proving the point you were trying to dodge all along.

You never wanted this thread to be about the differences between these two cars. You like the Model 3 better and you wanted people to agree with you.

iPlug
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:48 pm

If we’re going with past is precedent, the purchase/lease threads here confirm that few pay listed MSRP or advertised lease terms. We paid way under advertised terms for our Leaf lease.

All of these things remain negotiable with Nissan dealers. It will be hard to get a bargain the first few months of most new generation vehicles, but thereafter no reason to believe the future will be different with the Leaf.
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (16 MWh/yr actual production), Clipper Creek Level-2 7.7 kW charging stations x2, 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater

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