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Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 6:05 pm
by SageBrush
OrientExpress wrote:No I’m answering your questions despite your ignorance of the topic.

With non-answers.

I'll ask again:
Why are tax credits not included ?
Why are fuel savings not included ?

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 6:12 pm
by OrientExpress
SageBrush wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:No I’m answering your questions despite your ignorance of the topic.

With non-answers.

I'll ask again:
Why are tax credits not included ?
Why are fuel savings not included ?


Ok my clueless friend, tax credits are not included because they are a temporary entitlement, and fuel savings are irrelevant to this measure’s definition.

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 6:53 pm
by SageBrush
OrientExpress wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:No I’m answering your questions despite your ignorance of the topic.

With non-answers.

I'll ask again:
Why are tax credits not included ?
Why are fuel savings not included ?


Ok my clueless friend, tax credits are not included because they are a temporary entitlement, and fuel savings are irrelevant to this measure’s definition.


Friend ? No
Clueless ? Irony

How many Americans would have bought a LEAF without those entitlements ?
2, your defense of not including fuel savings is circular. Good job !

Face it, OE:
You are stuck trying to defend a ~ 35 kW 'fast charging' LEAF that wilts outside of the PNW or similar climates. The best you can think of is to paint all EVs as if they are Nissan crap.

Who do you think you are fooling ?

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 7:09 pm
by DougWantsALeaf
My Kia gets 26-7 miles per gallon at 55 and 12-14 at 80mph. 20 gallon tank. 250 miles. I drive across Nebraska in Summer, so I have the test data. City miles per gallon is also only 12-14 miles per gallon. Modern engine and all.

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 7:44 pm
by OrientExpress
Who do you think you are fooling ?


Not a professional fool, that is certain.

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:14 pm
by WetEV
OrientExpress wrote:I have a nine year old GTI that routinely gets 425-450 miles to a tank, so it’s not unreasonable to demand a BEV to do the same.


It would be fairly easy/cheap to redesign ICE to get 900 miles on a fuel tank that was twice as large. Almost no one is interested. Except for some pickup owners. Who are likely some of the last to be interested in a BEV.

https://titanfueltanks.com/products/xxl ... ment-tanks

BEV acceptance is doubling every 3 years or so. EVs don't need mainstream acceptance anytime soon, just keep the growth rate. How do we get to 4% BEV acceptance? Then 8%?

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:26 pm
by jbuntz
OrientExpress wrote:
"Very balanced article. The writer is obviously an EV advocate and LEAF fan but she does not gloss over the limitations that come with tripping an EV without a TMS.


The only issue here is that the situation that the author dwells on and makes the central thesis of the article (Slow than desired charging) is essentially limited to less than a thousand LEAFs in the US, and of that universe there is probably less than 10% that would ever be in this situation.

The other issue that I see is the obsessive dwelling on battery temperature on the 2018 cars. The arguments are based on assumptions from earlier versions of the LEAF regarding the 18s LEAF battery durability and its normal operating temperature. A quick scan of the owners manual would clear that up.

The real story is that long-distance travel for any BEV, TMS or non-TMS equipped, is still just like road trips from the 1950s and 60s. Road trips from that era and for modern BEVs is slow and full of surprises.

If you don't have the discipline and patience that is required for the pitfalls of this sort long distance travel in a BEV, then stop whining about it. This same story has been repeated ad nauseam by Tesla, BMW, Kia, Bolt owners since BEVs started their resurgence this decade. It's always the vehicles fault that the trip is a real pain.

Having poor judgement, being impatient and not taking responsibility for one's actions is not a vehicle defect.

I have to disagree that BEV travel is like road trips from the 50s. I now have a Tesla model 3 and after 11,000 miles I find it a modern highway cruiser. The battery easily outlasts my bladder and the Tesla Superchargers have not let me down.

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:07 pm
by OrientExpress
Thanks for your observations. Many of your fellow Tesla Drivers do not share them, but some do.

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:27 am
by SageBrush
OrientExpress wrote:Thanks for your observations. Many of your fellow Tesla Drivers do not share them, but some do.

Is 1% of Tesla Model 3 owners "many" ?
Is 99% of owners "some" ?

"many" Americans have a list of ICE vehicles they do not consider road trip worthy.

You are posting FUD with a big side dish of BS.

Re: 1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:31 am
by powersurge
Here we have again reached the debate on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin....

I have read all your posts, and propose this as a healthy medium...

The trip this brave person took was an adventure, and a testament to her sense exploration, trusting in her own strength and wits, and having an experience to always remember... Don't take that away from her. I wish that I could have also gone along for the trip to see all that natural beauty..

As for all the other arguing, I propose that a VERY WELL ACCEPTED EV would include the following.

250-300 mile range - (The Leaf E+ is almost there....)
70 mile normal cruising range - (Not max speed, but "normal" highest driving speed)
Quick charging stations in all gas stations, hotels, sit-down restaurants, malls, town halls, churches, rest stops, and highway exits.
1 hour to charge from 20%-100%

PS - all of this above is irrelevant because these specs would only be for interstate traveling... Which most people only do a few times per year, if that much.. I would not expect an EV to be like the above, especially for under $30K.

I am completely happy with the specs of the Chevy Bolt, and a future Leaf E++ (250 miles range)
and charging as it is today - With my home Level II charger.
That is a good car for most people, even if it is their only car..