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Marktm
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Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:46 pm

I'm in the market for a 2016 or 2017 Leaf with QC and navigation. Not much else matters - must have a 80-90% battery ahr rating. It will be my commuter car AND my "V2H" unit for off-grid backup energy storage to be used with my solar system.

Question is how much have these models depreciated with the new 2018 leaf introduction, and has the 30 kwh battery been holding up well (I know there is a lengthy topic on this - and being in South Texas will likely see the top end of degradation!). Has anyone purchased a used 30 kwh model (or even a new 2017?) recently and believe it was a good price?

Any help appreciated.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

goldbrick
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:18 am

Around me in CO used Leaf prices, especially for the newer models are very strong. I'd guess >80% of Leaf buyers/sellers have little idea about the 24kWh vs 30kWh differences, much less about the controversies with 30kWh pack longevity. They just see mileage and general condition of the car and price accordingly.

Long story short, I don't think you'll find any bargains on used 2016/2017 Leafs although you may get lucky.

Finally, being in a warm/hot climate I don't know if an uncooled battery pack would be a good choice for this. The Hx (internal resistance) of the 30kWh packs seems to increase faster than the SOH decreases so if your house inverter was pulling heavy current for a long time the pack would generate a lot of heat due to internal resistance. Add this to the hot climate plus the reputed susceptibility of the Leaf packs to heat degradation makes it seem like not a great fit.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:39 am

Marktm wrote:I'm in the market for a 2016 or 2017 Leaf with QC and navigation...

It will be my commuter car AND my "V2H" unit for off-grid backup energy storage to be used with my solar system...

Having similar plans and requirements, I was watching for great deals on the remaining new 17's when the 18's showed up, but they never materialized.

The used "30 kW" market is still so limited, it's likely that the only way to really find what one is worth, is to make offers on them, and see what kind of responses you get.

Have you actually acquired a "V2H" unit, and determined that it will not function with a 2011-12 LEAF?
no condition is permanent

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Marktm
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Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:17 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Have you actually acquired a "V2H" unit, and determined that it will not function with a 2011-12 LEAF?


I can purchase a Setec 3000 VA unit with CHAdeMO, but have been told the Leaf 2012 protocols are not bi-directional. I was able to find one 2012 Leaf owner (in the Netherlands) that was purportedly able to get Nissan to reprogram his leaf to use V2H, however could never get Nissan to respond to requests.

It does appear that the availability of 2016/2017 Leafs is somewhat limited. I'd also expect that the degradation will be a problem here in Texas, so the battery condition vrs the warranty will be a strong consideration. The bottom line however is that the newer Leaf (30 kwh) will at least be able to get to the solar installation on one charge if more than 80% capacity left! So I'll keep looking.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4548
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:47 pm

2016 SV 20K miles new battery, central Florida gun metal super clean... will be liquidating soon, assumed we would have to turn it into the dealer for whatever we could get for it. Wasn't really thinking we could find a buyer, maybe we should rethink.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

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Marktm
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Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:34 am

If you are successful, keep me updated.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

goldbrick
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:22 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:2016 SV 20K miles new battery, central Florida gun metal super clean... will be liquidating soon, assumed we would have to turn it into the dealer for whatever we could get for it. Wasn't really thinking we could find a buyer, maybe we should rethink.


I'm sure you can find a buyer. Around here (Boulder, CO) cars like that are listed for $15k - $18k. They seem to be moving at that price although it is hard to know for sure.

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Marktm
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Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:41 pm

I've found a local 2016 SV with the 30 kwh battery with 26,000 miles. I'm going to test the battery with LeafSpy Pro tomorrow. Any advice on major items to look for? If it appears to be highly degraded, could I depend on a new warranty replacement? Is the warranty the same as was my 2012 - 8 bars within 60,000 miles/or 5 years?

Is there any consensus on degradation rates in the hot climates for this battery? My experience so far on my "Lizard" battery is between around .4 to .5 ahr loss per month - although the ahr readings seem to vary quite a bit from summer to winter (lowers in winter and rebounds in spring/summer). This, however is at about 9,000 miles per year.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

goldbrick
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:40 am

Marktm wrote:Is the warranty the same as was my 2012 - 8 bars within 60,000 miles/or 5 years?


For a 2016 the warranty is 8 bars within 100,000 miles/or 8 years.

Marktm wrote:Is there any consensus on degradation rates in the hot climates for this battery?


Not really. The general consensus was the 30kWh packs were faring worse than the 24kWh packs but within the last week or so Nissan has issued a service bulletin that says the calculations of the BMS are wrong and the packs are actually doing better than the car reports.

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Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: 30 kwh leaf - what's it worth?

Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:16 pm

Thanks for the information. I was not able to buy the 2016 that was for sale locally - was bought almost immediately it seems.

My guess is there will be a market for the 30 KWH Leafs - but a real need for better understanding of the battery condition, especially related to the warranty. An 8 year, 8 bar warranty in a hot climate may result in at least two batteries for most buyers???

I'll keep looking,
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

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