Tax credit for EVSE question

ok, so hopefully I'm asking in the right forum.

My EVSE install quote came in at around $4100 after tax and shipping. Yeah, I'm unlucky enough to have a non-standard install.

Now my question is, is the Federal Tax credit for EV infrastructure for just the EVSE, required parts (conduit, wiring,etc) and labor or just the EVSE?

thanks in advance

dactec said:

My EVSE install quote came in at around $4100 after tax and shipping. Yeah, I'm unlucky enough to have a non-standard install.

Now my question is, is the Federal Tax credit for EV infrastructure for just the EVSE, required parts (conduit, wiring,etc) and labor or just the EVSE?

Click to expand...

It is for the entire EVSE + labor + any changes you need to make to your lectrical system.

But, post your information and quote in the "EVSE" sticky thread. AV has been overcharging - so you may be able to get it all installed for cheaper ...

I've been trying to get local businesses interested in installing EVSE's around the lake. There are quite a few places whose customers are there overnight, or all day long, so L2 would be perfectly suited for them.

For $650 a unit, plus wiring and electrical upgrades - the up to $50,000 tax credit for business would pay for a substantial electrical upgrade as even a handful of consumer level EVSE's aren't going to amount to much. I've tried to point out - they can do the electrical upgrade needed to support the new EVSE's and if it just happens also to be enough to also support a more substantial installation - more EVSE's and/or QC at some point in the future - well so be it.

By installing some low cost EVSE's now - they will start to see what the interest is and start to understand how to manage them and then be prepared for something more substantial in the future.

Great idea, LakeLeaf ! (Be sure to remember though (as you yourself pointed out in another thread) the credit is max. 50% of what was spent NTE $50,000 (in other words they still have a 50% cash outlay). Still, a good deal, and the other arguments are very valid.)

And a reminder for those who haven't read it six other places on this forum, if you must pay the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), you're not eligible for this tax credit at all.

I think I can say that definitively, after all of the posts on this topic here.

At the very least, check with your tax professional. Even if you've never paid AMT before, you may for 2010 and you may be disappointed if you plan on the credit.

The AMT hits people in high tax states such as California disproportionately, so do the math...

evnow said:

... AV has been overcharging ...

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This bears repeating. AEROVIRONMENT HAS BEEN QUOTING 3, 4, OR EVEN FIVE TIMES what a local electrician will charge to do the same work, and very probably charging 2 or 3 times what the EVSE itself ought to cost, as it's really nothing more than a glorified extension cord with a ground fault interrupter built in.

If you have AV do the work, you are being robbed! There will be other companies selling equivalent charging docks, and any local electrician can install them. Nissan is in bed with AV, but Nissan does NOT require you to buy a charging dock from AV.

Boomer23 said:

And a reminder for those who haven't read it six other places on this forum, if you must pay the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), you're not eligible for this tax credit at all.

I think I can say that definitively, after all of the posts on this topic here.

At the very least, check with your tax professional. Even if you've never paid AMT before, you may for 2010 and you may be disappointed if you plan on the credit.

The AMT hits people in high tax states such as California disproportionately, so do the math...

Click to expand...

Alternative minimum tax

• Status: The "patch" to narrow this tax's reach for the 2010 tax year hasn't been passed yet by Congress. Thus the exemption for married joint filers is currently $45,000, as opposed to nearly $71,000 last year. If the patch doesn't get done, 32 million taxpayers will owe AMT in 2010 versus 5 million last year.

Clint Myers, an investment actuary in Georgetown, S.C., figures it would raise his tax bill 10%—more than the expiration of the 2001 tax cuts would.

• What's ahead: Congressional tax staffers say they think the patch will get done when Congress addresses income-tax issues.

• What to do: People who owe estimated taxes are supposed to be paying at higher "nonpatch" rates until Congress fixes the problem. You can avoid paying at these higher rates or risking penalties by using an IRS "safe harbor," such as paying 110% of last year's taxes.

• Also: if tax rates go up next year, it becomes harder to fall into the AMT. Thus deductions may become more valuable, says Douglas Stives, an accounting professor at Monmouth University in New Jersey.

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From: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575481903960961386.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLEFifthNews

Boomer23 said:

And a reminder for those who haven't read it six other places on this forum, if you must pay the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), you're not eligible for this tax credit at all.
...
At the very least, check with your tax professional. Even if you've never paid AMT before, you may for 2010 and you may be disappointed if you plan on the credit.

Click to expand...

I would check this URL from the IRS: http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=206871,00.html

Particularly this part:
"Treatment of Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit as a Personal Credit Allowed Against AMT (Section 1144): Starting in 2009, the new law allows the Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit, including the tax credit for purchasing hybrid vehicles, to be applied against the Alternative Minimum Tax. Prior to the new law, the Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit could not be used to offset the AMT. This means the credit could not be taken if a taxpayer owed AMT or was reduced for some taxpayers who did not owe AMT."

And yes, check with your tax professional.

$7,500 applies against AMT. But the 50% EVSE will not.

daniel said:

evnow said:

... AV has been overcharging ...

Click to expand...

This bears repeating. AEROVIRONMENT HAS BEEN QUOTING 3, 4, OR EVEN FIVE TIMES what a local electrician will charge to do the same work, and very probably charging 2 or 3 times what the EVSE itself ought to cost, as it's really nothing more than a glorified extension cord with a ground fault interrupter built in.

If you have AV do the work, you are being robbed! There will be other companies selling equivalent charging docks, and any local electrician can install them. Nissan is in bed with AV, but Nissan does NOT require you to buy a charging dock from AV.

Click to expand...

The worst part is they lie to everyone with simple quotes saying it was an oversight even though they keep doing it and overcharging. Then they promise to adjust the PAID quote and never do. Once my order for the Leaf is ever processed I'm going ask for a refund of the assessment fee that for the quote that has still never been done correctly and if they won't refund I will dispute the charge. AV is not just backlogged, they are clearly unethical and use underhanded tactics. They can charge whatever they like and have the right to do so but lying about take rebate qualification is wrong and I refuse to PAY for a quote where I need to chase them down over and over to get it correct, sorry AV I will get a refund in the end and I would never have cared if you at least corrected my bid as promised, four times. They are a churn and burn money grab and they should not get the support of any Leaf buyers IMO just from an ethics standpoint. Besides, if you think the service is bad now pre sale, just think what it will be like later! Sorry about the rant but they are 100% BS and their actions back that up.

evnow said:

$7,500 applies against AMT. But the 50% EVSE will not.

Click to expand...

Correct.

Be sure to understand this distinction. There are two credits here, the $7500 one for the car purchase/lease AND the 50% credit for the charging equipment (EVSE). They are treated differently for the AMT. The EVSE one is disallowed if you pay even $1 of AMT.

Sorry to be redundant, evnow, but there always seems to be confusion about this, especially for people new to the site.

Boomer23 said:

evnow said:

$7,500 applies against AMT. But the 50% EVSE will not.

Click to expand...

Correct.

Be sure to understand this distinction. There are two credits here, the $7500 one for the car purchase/lease AND the 50% credit for the charging equipment (EVSE). They are treated differently for the AMT. The EVSE one is disallowed if you pay even $1 of AMT.

Sorry to be redundant, evnow, but there always seems to be confusion about this, especially for people new to the site.

Click to expand...

If only they(*) would make these distinctions when they tout these various tax credits. When one reads about them (ads, news articles, etc.) most assume refundability and 'full credit'. The restrictions are seldom even in the 'fine print' or mentioned parenthetically. Kinda like the crazy parenthetical disclaimers at the end of all those pharmaceutical TV and print advertisements.

So, I'm thankful to have learned both the above facts here on this forum ... and with enough time left in the CY (and prior to purchase) to make some informed decisions wrt purchase timing.

*They = journalists, advertisers, and whoever else throws out the $7500 Fed tax credit, and 50% off EVSE credit as carrots to potential buyers ....

JPVLeaf said:

So, I'm thankful to have learned both the above facts here on this forum ... and with enough time left in the CY (and prior to purchase) to make some informed decisions wrt purchase timing.

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Glad to be of assistance, JPV. I think we're both in Irvine. I'm in University Park. I'm sure we'll meet up before too long.

Cheers.

Boomer23 said:

evnow said:

$7,500 applies against AMT. But the 50% EVSE will not.

Click to expand...

Correct.

Be sure to understand this distinction. There are two credits here, the $7500 one for the car purchase/lease AND the 50% credit for the charging equipment (EVSE). They are treated differently for the AMT. The EVSE one is disallowed if you pay even $1 of AMT.

Click to expand...

Good to know. Guess I'll be trickle charging my leaf for a while. No point in rushing to install an EVSE by the end of the year if the EVSE credit does not apply against the AMT. Don't really need L2 charging with the type of driving I'll be doing with the Leaf anyway.

Thanks all for the reply. I was reading through the IRS documents, ARRA extends the 50% through 2009-2010 only, after that it should be returned to 30% and $1000. Am I reading that correct, and if so will it be extended?

Boomer23 said:

Glad to be of assistance, JPV. I think we're both in Irvine. I'm in University Park. I'm sure we'll meet up before too long.
Cheers.

Click to expand...

Yes, I believe you are right. Maybe on 9/18.

daniel said:

evnow said:

... AV has been overcharging ...

Click to expand...

This bears repeating. AEROVIRONMENT HAS BEEN QUOTING 3, 4, OR EVEN FIVE TIMES what a local electrician will charge to do the same work, and very probably charging 2 or 3 times what the EVSE itself ought to cost, as it's really nothing more than a glorified extension cord with a ground fault interrupter built in.

If you have AV do the work, you are being robbed! There will be other companies selling equivalent charging docks, and any local electrician can install them. Nissan is in bed with AV, but Nissan does NOT require you to buy a charging dock from AV.

Click to expand...

AV sent me a new quote today, dropped installation charge from $1300 down to $1040 to run 3' of # 8 wire. Sara of AV says they will sell the EVSE for $771.07 for dock & shipping, no sales tax here in Oregon. The 36 month warranty stays in effect but if there is a problem you have to pay the shipping costs in both directions. If they install the EVSE they come to your home to repair or replace it.