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Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:21 pm
by Kieran973
I'm close to pulling the trigger on a 2018 SV with the all weather package for $27.5K OTD ($20K total out of pocket). I've considered waiting for the 60 kWh Leaf (or the Niro or Kona EVs for that matter), but with the delays in all three of these models, it seems like it will be 6-12 months before they even come out, then another 6-12 months after that before you can buy one for 25-30K after all discounts/rebates. My sense is that the total out of pocket costs for these cars will be over 30K for quite some time after they're released, though of course this is just a guess.

My only concern about pulling the trigger on the 2018 SV is that I don't know the build date yet. I'm going to the dealership tomorrow to find out. I do know the car has been at the dealership for several months, but I don't know how many. How many months should be a significant concern for battery degradation? Like if the car's been on the lot since February, is it possible it could have 90% SOH before even being sold? The car is in 'storage' at the moment, which could mean a lot of different things. When I went in for a test drive of their demo vehicle (it was an S), the dealership had the car sitting there at 99% SOC for who knows how long. One of the downsides of waiting for end of model year discounts on the Leaf is you could theoretically buy a car that has 85% SOH and only discover this when you get home and plug in LeafSpy. If this happened, I don't think you would have any legal recourse since as far as I can tell there's nothing in the battery warranty which says that a new Leaf has to have 100% SOH. Speaking of which, does anyone know when the 8 year battery capacity warranty begins - is it the date of sale, or date of production? Thanks.

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:34 pm
by SageBrush
Warranty is from sale date.
A free VIN check available through the web will show the manufacture date.

I think you should ask yourself why you are spending $20k on a car that may be a lemon just from a few months handling according to manufacturer recommendations.

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:01 am
by goldbrick
The common consensus on Leaf batteries is that it is not good to store them at very high (or very low, but that's unusual) SOC and also that high temperatures degrade the battery faster than lower temperatures.

So if you are concerned, ask what SOC and what temperature the car was stored at. Ideally, it would be in cool spot around 40% SOC. If it was outside in a lot in Phoenix all summer at 100% SOC that is worse for the battery. Even under those conditions, the SOH would probably still be in the high 90's%.

Of course it would be best to get a car fresh off the line but even then, you won't know how long the battery may have sat in a warehouse somewhere or in a container crossing the ocean. It's hard not to get really OCD about the battery but unless you get a lemon it will probably out-live the warranty. Project ahead 8 years and assume the battery has 70% of new capacity then. If it's worth it you to pay $X for that much service from the car you are good to go. Worst case the car is worth $0 then (unlikely IMHO) but who knows?

You will enjoy the car a lot more once you stop worrying about every fractional % of SOH but I know from 1st hand experience how hard it can be to let go of that.

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:06 pm
by LeftieBiker
Of course it would be best to get a car fresh off the line but even then, you won't know how long the battery may have sat in a warehouse somewhere or in a container crossing the ocean.


Ocean...?

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:36 pm
by goldbrick
I assume things are shipped from Japan via boat but perhaps they come via an airplane. According this site the critical parts of the battery are made in Japan although I suppose that could have changed in the last few years.

https://venturebeat.com/2013/09/30/why- ... -in-japan/

"While the lithium-ion cells for the Leaf’s battery are assembled in Tennessee, the critical electrode material is fabricated in Japan and shipped in huge rolls to Smyrna."

But yeah, you're probably right. My point is just that trying to figure out the age of a battery in a new Leaf is pointless since there really isn't enough data available to know how long the battery has been in storage and under what conditions. There is even less data available for where the battery or its parts were before the car was built.

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:47 pm
by LeftieBiker
I agree that battery storage conditions matter. I just don't think we have to consider pre-build ocean voyages. The clock starts on these packs in Tennessee.

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:53 pm
by Kieran973
SageBrush wrote:Warranty is from sale date.
A free VIN check available through the web will show the manufacture date.

I think you should ask yourself why you are spending $20k on a car that may be a lemon just from a few months handling according to manufacturer recommendations.


Sage, riddle me this: if you're so good with your money, why did you drop $60,000 on a car?

Free VIN checks online only show the manufacture year, not the month, at least in the ones I can find.

Regardless, the deal on the SV that I was trying to work out is dead for now. Two days ago, the dealer and I had a verbal agreement of 27.5K OTD, but today they tried to change that to "no, the sale price is 27.5 - the OTD price is 30K." So I'm gonna go back to some other dealerships. The $2,500 difference isn't a huge deal, but I feel like, given both the rapidgate issue and the expected degradation, $22,500 is too much to spend on a 2018 Leaf SV, especially when people on this forum are getting them for under 20K, or SL's for low 20's, not to mention that you can supposedly get a Bolt in the mid 20's after tax credits/dealer discounts. Or am I being unreasonable?

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:56 am
by sbuhler
If you are able to pull up the window sticker online you will see the manufacture date on the very bottom right of the window sticker. The price you will ultimately pay will depend mostly on your zip code of where it will be registered. For example, I am in Louisiana and we have 0 rebates and/or incentives from Nissan. I decided to purchase my Leaf from a dealer in Austin, TX because having it shipped to me still was $2,500 cheaper than purchasing locally due to limited supply. However, my price was ultimately much higher than a deal you would be able to get in the Zev states.

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:27 am
by Dooglas
spintran wrote:
Dooglas wrote:OR title fee is $93. Registration fee for a new vehicle in Multnomah County is $324 ($248 outside of the metro area). And this is Oregon so no sales tax. :D

Actually now there is OR privilege tax of 0.5% starting 2018

That is actually a tax owed by the dealer. Of course the dealer may pass on part or all of the tax to the buyer during negotiation of the purchase or lease price. It is not, however, a fee paid to OR DMV at the time of titling and registration.

Re: Leaf Price / Discount discussion thread

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:23 am
by BuffaloBillsfan
Picking up a 2018 Nissan Leaf SL tomorrow , Gun Metallic with black interior.

Total Price- $35953
Trade in- $3200
Difference - $32753
NYS tax @ 8.75%- $2872.45
Reg/tax etc- $157.50
Sub total- $35782.95
Rebates - $6500
COD - $100
Amount to finance - $29182.95

Includes:

Protection package
Splash guards
Carpeted floor mats and cargo mat
cargo organizer
Kick plates
SL tech package