To trade in BEV or not

I have a 2015 Spark EV with DCFC CCS option. Purchased the car while I was a foot loose bachelor but things have changed. Looks like I'll be married next spring with an instant family to boot. Don't get me wrong, I love my Spark but a new life style and a few charging incidents have made me consider trading in the Spark for a PHEV. With the Spark at it's highest trade in price now and my $10K tax break (I qualify) I could do that today for a Ford Fusion Energi or Plug in Toyota Prius or 2015 Honda Accord (discontinued this year). other considerations:
pure EV only mode range for available PHEVs:

Fusion Energi - 19 miles
Prius PHEV - 11 miles
Accord PHEV - 11 miles
Sonata PHEV - 27 miles (not available yet)
Volt ver 1 - 38 miles
Volt ver 2 - 53 miles

I still want at least some EV only mode. Any advice?

I have a Leaf and a CMax Energi. Both work well with my family of 4. If the range works for you, a Leaf might be a reasonable upgrade from your Spark. It is a considerably larger car.

If you really need the long range, a PHEV is great. It's a practical solution to the current lack of quick public infrastructure. I love the Energi. It drives well and is efficient in "hybrid" mode. It is also reasonably peppy in EV mode. I assume the Fusion drives much like the CMax, as the powertrain is identical.

The Volt is an excellent option, but it's small - I would assume similar to your Spark.

If you go from a BEV to the Prius Plug-in, I think you will be disappointed in the lack of performance.

The Accord drives well and is as polished as you'd expect from an Accord. But it has less range and a higher price tag than the Fusion Energi.

I cannot speak for the Sonata since, like most people not working for Hyundai, I have only read about it.

The new generation of Prius PHEV is supposed to have a 25 mile EV range, a substantial improvement. The Prius is a great family car, with the best MPG once charge is exhausted. If acceleration is important it may disappoint, but I'm not sure any of these cars are fast...

The OP says he wants at least some EV experience. The next-gen Prius may have 2-3x the range, but do we know yet whether it will have a more powerful electric motor? The current generation (recently discontinued) has terrible performance if you try to keep it in EV mode.

Volt 2

GetOffYourGas said:

The OP says he wants at least some EV experience. The next-gen Prius may have 2-3x the range, but do we know yet whether it will have a more powerful electric motor? The current generation (recently discontinued) has terrible performance if you try to keep it in EV mode.

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I haven't found that, but then I never try to drive a Prius fast, either. ;-)

Don't go with the volt 1. It's tiny for child seats. Unless you yourself or your wife are very short you would have a very hard time sitting in front of a rear facing child seat in that car. Also IMHO the centre rear seats (which the volt 1 lacks) biggest benefit is for child seats, it's the safest spot (as long as your car gives the option of mounting there, all of them don't) and it gives an option of both the driver and passenger being able to see the kid. Volt 2 solved this by putting in a seat without any leg room which is fine for the little ones.

Most of the sedan PHEV have batteries that take up so much trunk space that stollers will be limited. The new Sonata is better with all the space in the floor plus the best electric range of them all.

We first started out BEV/PHEV shopping with a 1 year old and plans for more so these were a lot of our first considerations.

We've had 3 kids in the back of the Leaf. For being a small car it's quite roomy. I would consider the 2016 Leaf which gets around a 20% range boost over the earlier models. It should hit dealers later this month.

GetOffYourGas ,

Thanks for the advice, My new family will be Wife, Me, her 14 year old Daughter, 25 year old Daughter, her husband and a 5 year old niece. So the kid seat will soon be gone. I like the Fusion Energi but prices in CA are high. No deals found yet. RThe biggest problem is selling the Spark, so far dealer offered only $10K for trade in even though $17K is listed as average trade in for my car
in CARGURUS

I can't imagine why anyone would get any PHEV other than the Volt. It's got at least twice the battery of any other option and costs roughly the same or even less (don't forget that the bigger battery means a bigger tax credit.) Sure, the Fusion or other options might "look better", but the battery is what it's all about people!

stevon said:

GetOffYourGas ,

Thanks for the advice, My new family will be Wife, Me, her 14 year old Daughter, 25 year old Daughter, her husband and a 5 year old niece. So the kid seat will soon be gone. I like the Fusion Energi but prices in CA are high. No deals found yet. RThe biggest problem is selling the Spark, so far dealer offered only $10K for trade in even though $17K is listed as average trade in for my car
in CARGURUS

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You're very welcome. Good luck with your quest. it is a buyer's market for used BEVs right now, so I suspect it will be hard to get that $17k for your Spark!

fooljoe said:

I can't imagine why anyone would get any PHEV other than the Volt. It's got at least twice the battery of any other option and costs roughly the same or even less (don't forget that the bigger battery means a bigger tax credit.) Sure, the Fusion or other options might "look better", but the battery is what it's all about people!

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You don't have to imagine. You just have to listen.

I love the Volt. I wish it would have worked for me, but is just a non-option. I have a family of four (myself, wife, and two kids - ages 4 and 6). We often take a third person along, whether it is my mother or my sister-in-law, so the 5th seat is handy if not required. The bigger issue is the cargo space. The CMax Energi has almost twice as much trunk space as the Volt - 19 cu.ft. to 10cu.ft. When I go on summer vacation, or drive to the grandparents' house for Christmas, the Volt's tiny trunk is an absolute deal killer. And that's before you consider the extra floor space in front of the rear seats.

For others, the full-sized back seat of the Fusion is enough to seal the deal over even a 2016 Volt with a nominal "5th" seat. It's more like 4 1/2 seats. The Fusion's trunk is even smaller than the Volt's, so it was out for me. But others need a car to transport 5 adults with only modest luggage.

So I'm sorry, the battery is not "what it's all about". It's about an efficient, reliable form of transportation. And that means transporting both people and their stuff.

EDIT: we take a third *adult* along, making five with the children. Children are people too!

For that trade-in value, if the teenaged daughter were a little older I'd consider the Spark to be the future teenager-mobile. It might also make a good second vehicle if you don't already have one. My wife drives the Plug-in Prius, and to be honest the plug-in part just means she can use the carpool lanes, and that the car gets almost 60mpg after the battery runs out. We got it because my wife likes Priuses and the PIP was selling for the same price as the standard one at the time.

Are you moving? Does this mean that charging won't be a problem at the new place?

stevon said:

The biggest problem is selling the Spark, so far dealer offered only $10K for trade in even though $17K is listed as average trade in for my car in CARGURUS

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Considering a new Spark EV starts at a bit over $25k, and that price does not include the $7500 Federal Tax Credit nor CA's $2500 rebate, I seriously doubt you'll be able to get $17k for it even private party, much less dealer trade.

NADA is showing a 2015 2LT with 5,000 miles being offered in trade-in under $14k in "Average" condition. Edmunds is showing 2 used 1LT's with under 3k miles (and a 2LT with under 10k miles) selling for under $15k at dealers in my area, meaning the dealers paid less for them. Kelly Blue Book doesn't even list the Spark EV when you go to their website to value your own car.

I understand being concerned over being unplugged as per your other thread, but if in your matrimony you are going to move to a new home that has even 120 volt charging available to you, I would stick this one out, otherwise you will be losing a LOT of money.

RonDawg said:

stevon said:

The biggest problem is selling the Spark, so far dealer offered only $10K for trade in even though $17K is listed as average trade in for my car in CARGURUS

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Considering a new Spark EV starts at a bit over $25k, and that price does not include the $7500 Federal Tax Credit nor CA's $2500 rebate, I seriously doubt you'll be able to get $17k for it even private party, much less dealer trade. <snip>

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Note that under the new regulation, if your income is <300% of the federal poverty limit, the max. BEV rebate is raised to $4,000, making it even harder to get a good price for a used Spark EV.

Looks like I have no option but to keep the car for a while. My $10k tax rebate won't be until next year. With a balance of $28K I'm stuck in my "electric seat" for now. I am moving 20 miles away from work so to and from work is all the car can be used for during the week. Next year the Hyundai PHEV will be available. Technology keeps moving on, maybe I should wait for a lease in the future for a BOLT or similar car. As far as the teenager, the car is too fast and unwieldy IMO for a first time driver, although it is super easy to park.

Stephen

I finally found the PHEV car I want a Golf GTE

There was a wagon version seen in San Francisco: http://insideevs.com/volkswagen-golf-gte-plug-hybrid-station-wagon-spotted-san-francisco/

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-volkswagen-golf-gte-review
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/09/2016-volkswagen-golf-gte-first-drive-review/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US5lFYY20n8

Specs as follows:

Propulsion 150hp four-cyl gasoline engine
EV Power 102hp electric motor
Total Power 204hp
Transmission DQ400E six-speed dual-clutch auto
CO2 emissions 35g/km (Europe)
Drivetrain Front-wheel drive
0-60mph 7.6 seconds
Top speed 135mph (81mph in e-mode)
Seats 5
Cargo volume 14.2 cu. ft.
Electric range 31 miles
Range total 580 miles
240V charge* 3.5 hours
Fuel efficiency 188mpg (Europe)
Regional Availability Europe (not is USA)
MSRP $39,000 est.
Release Date August 2014

Finally find a car I want but it's not available here, they are selling well in Europe. After Vdub's Diesel debacle I think they need another green image car to sell here!

stevon said:

I have a 2015 Spark EV with DCFC CCS option. Purchased the car while I was a foot loose bachelor but things have changed. Looks like I'll be married next spring with an instant family to boot. Don't get me wrong, I love my Spark but a new life style and a few charging incidents have made me consider trading in the Spark for a PHEV. With the Spark at it's highest trade in price now and my $10K tax break (I qualify) I could do that today for a Ford Fusion Energi or Plug in Toyota Prius or 2015 Honda Accord (discontinued this year). other considerations:
pure EV only mode range for available PHEVs:

Fusion Energi - 19 miles
Prius PHEV - 11 miles
Accord PHEV - 11 miles
Sonata PHEV - 27 miles (not available yet)
Volt ver 1 - 38 miles
Volt ver 2 - 53 miles

I still want at least some EV only mode. Any advice?

Click to expand...

I almost forgot about this car. I was very excited about it a year or two ago, until I learned VW had no plans to cross the pond with it. But you're right; maybe with the ongoing diesel scandal, they will reconsider! It would certainly help bolster the brand's sales in the US. Maybe they could even reinvent themselves from the go-to diesel company to the go-to PHEV company!

GetOffYourGas,

I think among the many reasons not to import to the US is that they are already bringing in the Audi A3 e-tron with the same drive train which has a higher potential for profit. Why decide to dilute a limited market with a competing car? The argument "to be nice guys and make less profit" probably doesn't go over well at stockholder meetings in Wolfsburg
Stephen

quote[GetOffYourGas]
I almost forgot about this car. I was very excited about it a year or two ago, until I learned VW had no plans to cross the pond with it. But you're right; maybe with the ongoing diesel scandal, they will reconsider! It would certainly help bolster the brand's sales in the US. Maybe they could even reinvent themselves from the go-to diesel company to the go-to PHEV company!

If they targeted the Golf GTE at the sub-$30k (after Federal rebate) market (and offered the wagon) they wouldn't really be competing with the more expensive Audi. There is a dividing line, somewhere between $25k and $30k, that marks the upper limit for what a Middle Class family or couple will spend on a car.