WTB: cheapest certified SL with quick charge

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burjoes

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Austin, Texas
I'm looking around the country for the lowest price Certified SL with a quick charge port.

I am seeing a few out there for about $10k with about 20k miles, mostly 2012 models.

I have a 2014 BMW i3 BEV and looking to downsize in monthly payment. Seeing chademo stations being installed in my town (Austin, Texas), although that is not a primary factor.

I would consider a non-certified car, if it was substantially lower in price. However, with the number of issues I've heard about, and the newness of the technology, I want both worry-free driving (if such a thing exists) and protected resale value.

I'm not in a huge hurry - any reason to wait for the 2016's to launch, or other advice/suggestions? I'm looking for the best-equipped model I can get. I drive about 50 miles a day, so it needs to be comfortable.

Thanks!

Jason
 
I bought the BMW for about 52k. At the time, I was not aware that my tax situation would change in the following months such that I would not be able to take the $7500 credit (long story, don't ask, it's personal, and yes I'm sure). I refinanced it to buy a house and get a lower payment to qualify, and I owe about $30k on it. Payments are $475.
 
I would read all the active posts here for a few weeks to learn of all the issues surrounding the battery and range and anything else. I would not look at 2011-12s due to range loss. There are several threads about it and how hard it is to get a replacement. Look at the capacity bar loss page. My 15 is good so far FWIW and it has been a hot summer here. Good luck.
 
burjoes said:
I would consider a non-certified car, if it was substantially lower in price. However, with the number of issues I've heard about, and the newness of the technology, I want both worry-free driving (if such a thing exists) and protected resale value.

About the only issue with 2011/12 cars you need to worry about is battery degradation and buying "certified" unfortunately doesn't extend the battery warranty coverage which remains at 5 years/60,000 miles for capacity loss below the 4 bar threshold or 8 years/100,000 against manufacturing defects. Gradual capacity loss and decreased range is not considered to be a manufacturing defect unless it can be linked to a faulty module, which is very rare but not unheard of.

There are plenty of topics here asking advice on buying used, take your time to read through them and understand how you can gauge battery condition. Apart from watching out for red flags such as salvage title and accident history, the ultimate goal of used Leaf hunting is finding one with a degraded pack that qualifies or will soon qualify for battery replacement under capacity warranty. Second best strategy is a car with low battery degradation and low mileage. Good luck.
 
I really would not want to deliberately hunt down a bad battery, and pay good money for it. If you must, this one had a solid 14 mile range indicated on the GOM at 3/4 charge.
http://m.carmax.com/vehicle/12342789
This one should soon qualify as degraded!
 
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

You said 50 miles/day. How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

I'm not sure why you'd want to pay more for certified. There's already enough of a price premium buying a non-certified one from a Nissan dealer. And, it doesn't extend the battery capacity warranty.

What are "the number of issues I've heard about"? You're in TX, so your biggest problem will be battery degradation and thus reduction of range autonomy, See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192 re: 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694 for a summary of degradation.

As for "protected resale value", LOL! Leaf resale value is frankly terrible. It's good for used car buyers though. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=430825#p430825 for what I got.

Unfortunately, the CHAdeMO inlet will command a premium. Who are the CHAdeMO providers in your area? Do you know the costs? In the SF Bay Area, Blink and NRG eVgo are the main DC FC providers, both a ripoff, $0.59 cents/kWh for the former and http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/ for the latter. That why I didn't want to bother paying for CHAdeMO on the used Leaf I bought. My former '13 Leaf SV had it, and I used the port only 16 times in 2 years, all at free CHAdeMO stations (not many left).

If you're willing to buy new, you may just want to pick up a '15 since it has the "lizard battery" or wait for a '16 SV or SL since it comes w/8 year/100K capacity warranty and 107 miles of EPA range. If hitting 8 bars = 30% loss, that means ~75 miles of range. A new '13 to '15 Leaf w/new battery at 100% charge achieves 84 miles on the EPA test.
 
EVforRobert said:
I would not look at 2011-12s due to range loss.
I agree, unless that '11 or '12 has a new battery or is CERTAIN to be eligible for replacement before the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty runs out. I'd guess Austin weather should cook the battery pretty well.

EVforRobert said:
There are several threads about it and how hard it is to get a replacement.
It's not been that hard. OP can skim the last 20 pages or so http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102.
 
I found a 2011 Leaf SL with 12k miles on it. It has all the options (I think) including Quick Charge and heated leather seats (custom installed by the dealer).

We already have a deal and I'm going through the paperwork now with the bank, but it's not too late to back out.

Questions:

It has 9 bars. The 5/60 battery warranty ends in Oct 2016. Does it seem certain that I would go through that last bar before then? I drive about 50-70 miles a day.

On that note, with 8 bars, will I make it my minimum of 40 miles a day, including the winter?

I am asking the owner to take it to the local dealer to have it checked out. Any special instructions? Is it reasonable to ask them to check it out using a Leaf Spy?

It's in the Miami area if that helps. I don't have the car fax (worth it?) but I believe it was driven in California. Current owner bought it at 3800 miles, not sure when.
 
burjoes said:
It has 9 bars. The 5/60 battery warranty ends in Oct 2016. Does it seem certain that I would go through that last bar before then? I drive about 50-70 miles a day.
It depends on how fast you drive and whether you have charging at your destination or are willing to charge along the way.

See range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293. In particular look at the chart for the 8 and 9 bar cars. On a 9 bar car, it predicts a range until empty of 91 miles if you go 35 mph w/no HVAC usage, on level ground. Or, only 43 miles, if you go 75 mph. Keep in mind that these are w/a 100% charge and run until battery exhaustion, w/no buffer.

You don't want to pull into your destination w/the turtle light on, because often, you won't make it and it'll get tougher and tougher as the battery degrades and as it gets colder.

If you're going to ride around near the bottom, you MUST have something like Leaf Spy.

Since you're in TX, I'm almost certain you'll be down to 8 bars before Oct 2016. Heck, if you can hold out even longer (to wait until almost the last moment to get a fresh battery), you might be down to 7, maybe even 6 bars by Oct 2016.

One wrinkle is that I don't know the current status of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17045 with respect to opting back in if the previous person opted-out, etc. I haven't followed as I don't care (since it doesn't apply to me) and I have no time to anyway.
burjoes said:
I'm looking for the best-equipped model I can get. I drive about 50 miles a day, so it needs to be comfortable.
I'm not sure if you believe best-equipped model == comfort. There's no comfort difference on any '11 or '12 other than standard heated seats and steering wheel on the '12+ models.

'13-15 SL come w/leather, but I don't care to pay for that and that doesn't == extra comfort to me.
 
Thanks for the replies. I contacted the dealer and found that the owner has not opted out of the warranty for battery capacity decline.

They charge $120 for a check out, and they will do the testing to see if it might already qualify for a new battery.

Regarding "comfort" this one has heated leather seats installed by the dealer when bought new.
 
burjoes said:
They charge $120 for a check out, and they will do the testing to see if it might already qualify for a new battery.
If it still has more than 8 bars, it won't qualify. There's no point. They shouldn't be charging money to see if it qualifies, either.

If the $120 is for some sort of inspection as to the car's condition, whether it's been in a serious accident, etc., ok then.

Again, you still haven't answered my questions about charging at your destination(s) or along the way. You can forget 70 miles or even 50 miles of range on a charge on a 9 bar car if you go fast. See range charts I pointed to. You won't be able to achieve 70 miles even on a new battery at 75 mph.
 
Sorry, I forgot to reply to your other comments.

First, about the "testing". I would be paying the dealership to do a complete pre-buyers inspection to know if there is damage, repairs needed, etc. That is $120. When I told him about my concerns about battery life, he said just bring it in and they'll check it out. So no charge on that - I just meant they would do it at the same time it was there for the checkout.

Regarding my commute and charging situation - I live 20 miles from my work, 18 of which is on a 70MPH highway. So for 30-35 miles a day, I'm going 75-78MPH. There is no charging possible at work. I have a Clipper Creek HCS-40 on a 50 amp circuit at my house for my i3.

In addition to work/home, I take a night class one or two nights a week. To get there, I drive straight from work back past my house and another 10 miles round trip, total of about 50 miles. On that trek, I spend about 10 miles in bumper to bumper traffic instead of going 70+MPH. There is no charger at my school.

I really appreciate seeing that chart! It looks like I will be very tight for miles with 9 bars - then ok with a new battery. Your thoughts?
 
burjoes said:
Sorry, I forgot to reply to your other comments.

First, about the "testing". I would be paying the dealership to do a complete pre-buyers inspection to know if there is damage, repairs needed, etc. That is $120. When I told him about my concerns about battery life, he said just bring it in and they'll check it out. So no charge on that - I just meant they would do it at the same time it was there for the checkout.

Regarding my commute and charging situation - I live 20 miles from my work, 18 of which is on a 70MPH highway. So for 30-35 miles a day, I'm going 75-78MPH. There is no charging possible at work. I have a Clipper Creek HCS-40 on a 50 amp circuit at my house for my i3.

In addition to work/home, I take a night class one or two nights a week. To get there, I drive straight from work back past my house and another 10 miles round trip, total of about 50 miles. On that trek, I spend about 10 miles in bumper to bumper traffic instead of going 70+MPH. There is no charger at my school.

I really appreciate seeing that chart! It looks like I will be very tight for miles with 9 bars - then ok with a new battery. Your thoughts?
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295
Tells you your expected range given how many bars you have. If I read correctly, you can expect 45 miles range at 75 mph and 9 bars.
 
EVforRobert said:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295
Tells you your expected range given how many bars you have. If I read correctly, you can expect 45 miles range at 75 mph and 9 bars.
No, you need to look at the 9 bar chart at https://www.dropbox.com/s/y7hfg9ne3ojg9wa/LEAFrangeChartVersion7G69.pdf?dl=0.

Expected range at 75 mph is 43 miles on a full charge.

I'd also look at the 8 CB chart at https://www.dropbox.com/s/epy3s5bmcbu3gpk/LEAFrangeChartVersion7G63.pdf?dl=0, which predicts 39 miles @ 75 mph.
burjoes said:
Regarding my commute and charging situation - I live 20 miles from my work, 18 of which is on a 70MPH highway. So for 30-35 miles a day, I'm going 75-78MPH. There is no charging possible at work. I have a Clipper Creek HCS-40 on a 50 amp circuit at my house for my i3.
...
I really appreciate seeing that chart! It looks like I will be very tight for miles with 9 bars - then ok with a new battery. Your thoughts?
I can say for that portion, it will be extremely tight on a 9 CB car. You will need to slow way down to leave a decent amount of buffer, esp. in winter. The high speeds suck up a lot of juice. I'd imagine you will arrive home past VLBW (2nd warning) each time.

Heater use from power pig heater and temporary capacity loss in colder weather doesn't help either. You will definitely want to pre-heat on "shore power".

If you can at least charge for a few hours @ 120 volts at work, that'd help. Each hour should add a tad over 1 kWh into the battery. You can assume 3 to 4 miles/kWh, depending on HVAC usage, speed, etc.
 
You might want to consider experimenting with smooth wheel covers and taller, thinner tires if you get that car. You could possibly see more range benefit than most Leaf drivers from aero mods. Much of the extra drag above (and below, for that matter) 55MPH is from the area of the wheel wells.
 
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