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Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:15 pm
by jjeff
DaveInAvl wrote:Well, I found our 2014 SL for sale after we turned it in at lease-end. It's being offered at $11,990 at the dealer in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio - VIN ends in 331649.

Just curious, what was your buyout? $12k seems a bit on the high side or maybe their building in a bit of haggle room, it must have been pretty clean and relatively low miles? maybe new tires?

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:59 pm
by DaveInAvl
jjeff wrote:Just curious, what was your buyout? $12k seems a bit on the high side or maybe their building in a bit of haggle room, it must have been pretty clean and relatively low miles? maybe new tires?

The buyout was $16024. It has 21,000+ miles, the original tires and 11 bars. Last fall, the leasing dealer accidentally sent me an ad intended for owners rather than lessees, telling me the Black Book value was $7475 but they'd offer me up to $8970 as a trade-in. Naturally, I made a buyout offer in that vicinity but they wanted nothing to do with me...

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:57 pm
by Reddy
Ha, that's great. I love it when the dealership's screwup and you can catch them at their game. So there's another example that they target a minimum of $2000 profit on each sale, sometimes $2k on each side.

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:02 am
by LeftieBiker
Last fall, the leasing dealer accidentally sent me an ad intended for owners rather than lessees, telling me the Black Book value was $7475 but they'd offer me up to $8970 as a trade-in.


I think we all get those. If they have your address, they send you it. It's casting a wide, annoying net.

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:04 am
by GetOffYourGas
It's hard to say what the future brings, but almost every scenario points to the Gen1 Leaf being practically worthless in a few years.

SageBrush wrote:The day I bought my used LEAF I figured the resale value is zero and I would not have purchased the car if I had any expectations of selling it in the future. OTOH I *do* expect the car to work well for us at least five years.

Unfortunately, the LEAF is a throw-away car. If I'm really fortunate the battery and its electronics get recycled into a home system.


I bought mine off lease, when they offered me an extra $5k off residual. This was my thought too. I figure that by buying the car, I can wait until I am ready to upgrade rather than being forced by a cycle of leasing. I also calculated the cost of a new 3-year lease. At the time, it would have only saved me about $2k from just buying. So now if the car is worth $2k at 6 years old, I'm golden.

I probably won't try to sell in my market. There isn't much demand for a 25-mile (in the winter, with degradation) car around here, despite the low running costs. I will ask about trade-in, but probably won't do that unless it's at least 3-4k (ha!).

I'm thinking I'll keep it as a winter rat. In New York, you can withdraw a car from use for a season and cut insurance almost to 0. No need to turn in the plates. So if I go back and forth between two cars, the extra insurance is basically zero.

When I'm tired of that, I may just tear it apart and put the battery cells in my sailboat. I already use an electric outboard, with a measly 0.52kWh battery. The upgrade would be very nice.

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:09 am
by Dooglas
GetOffYourGas wrote:It's hard to say what the future brings, but almost every scenario points to the Gen1 Leaf being practically worthless in a few years.
Isn't that a lot like saying that most any vehicle reaches a point where it has little resale value? I look at this from the standpoint of how long it will be useful to ME. A somewhat different question.

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:38 am
by powersurge
I think that people thinking that a Gen 1 Leaf is worthless in a few years is ridiculous (ok, to soothe the writer below, I will use the adjective... "misinformed"). If that is true, I will buy a Leaf for every member of my family and laugh.

I really think that too many of us are thinking of a Leaf as an electrical device like an Ipad or a cell phone that is valueless when the new ones come out. Yes, ipads, cell phones, and pcs can be worthless WHEN THE SOFTWARE becomes too complex for the old computer to process and run at a reasonable speed.

Cars are very different because the environment in which they work DOES NOT CHANGE. A 30 year old car (or even a 50 year old) is still made of steel, seats, and tires, and travels down the road at the same speed as any other new car. SO... To me, the Leaf can last as long as any other of my cars (15-20 years) AS LONG as I can get a battery or parts for it... I fully expect that we will have better and bigger batteries that will keep the Leaf going for many year.

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:53 am
by LeftieBiker
Agreed. Any vehicle that drives ok and will pass inspection is worth at least $1k. Any nice car that does the above and has the Leaf's other advantages will always be worth at least $3k, IMO, if it can do 25 miles or more.

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:58 pm
by GetOffYourGas
Dooglas wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:It's hard to say what the future brings, but almost every scenario points to the Gen1 Leaf being practically worthless in a few years.
Isn't that a lot like saying that most any vehicle reaches a point where it has little resale value? I look at this from the standpoint of how long it will be useful to ME. A somewhat different question.


No, it's not. True, all vehicles eventually reach a point where it has little resale value. Typically that takes 15 years or more. Most $35k cars (ok, $28k after federal tax credit) do not depreciate to less than $3k in less than 8 years. That's about 90% depreciation. And that's what I meant by "practically worthless". You can debate whether the words I used are "ridiculous" - feel free. But that's what I meant.

powersurge wrote:I think that people thinking that a Gen 1 Leaf is worthless in a few years is ridiculous.

...
LeftieBiker wrote:Agreed. Any vehicle that drives ok and will pass inspection is worth at least $1k. Any nice car that does the above and has the Leaf's other advantages will always be worth at least $3k, IMO, if it can do 25 miles or more.


If the car is worth less than $3k to sell/trade-in, then it is worth more to me to just keep it as a winter rat and eventually cannibalize the parts for other purposes. Insurance overhead for the extra car (in New York, cannot speak to other states) is basically zero. Even if the battery degrades to 50%, a 600lb / 12kWh battery alone is worth the $3k to me.

I'll probably just cough up the extra $3k towards my next car rather than trading in the Leaf. Who knows - maybe if I keep the car intact, I can enter it in the Syracuse Nationals in 20 years from now.

Re: What Are Our Used Leafs Worth Now?

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:05 pm
by SageBrush
powersurge wrote:I fully expect that we will have better and bigger batteries that will keep the Leaf going for many year.
I hope you are right, but I don't think it will work out that way.

Nissan has already made the current 30 kWh battery non-interchangeable with 24 kWh cars. Law requires that Nissan stock spare parts for (7? 10?) years, but there is no requirement to store them in optimal conditions. The warranty in fact actually only requires Nissan to bring a battery back up to 9 bars. And in the case of buying a replacement battery, it is no better: warranty for a year -- against defects, NOT aging.

Are you going to buy a battery for $6k that may be 9 bars on day #1 ? Not worry about a battery that may have been sitting in storage for years ? AFAIK, Nissan is no longer producing 24 kWh batteries, so the best case scenario we can hope for is that replacement batteries were produced in early 2017.