GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Tue May 30, 2017 6:20 pm

Parrothead wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:Sitting on a dealer lot for 3 years in South Dakota would probably ruin the battery in a 2011 that does not have the cold weather package because the battery heater (does not exist without cold weather package) needs to cycle on when the battery temperature gets down near 0 degrees F (not sure of exact threshold temperature).


Thanks for the info...I didn't know about the cold weather package piece. I'm guessing the pack will be replaced with the latest version. The question then becomes, will that new pack include the heating capability? There is no cold weather package (seats, wheel, mirrors), but is the battery heater dependent on that particular part of the system?


There is a different part numbers for 2011 replacement batteries depending upon whether the car has the cold weather package so the replacement battery would not have the heater if the car does not have the package.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Tue May 30, 2017 6:21 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
Parrothead wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:Sitting on a dealer lot for 3 years in South Dakota would probably ruin the battery in a 2011 that does not have the cold weather package because the battery heater (does not exist without cold weather package) needs to cycle on when the battery temperature gets down near 0 degrees F (not sure of exact threshold temperature).


Thanks for the info...I didn't know about the cold weather package piece. I'm guessing the pack will be replaced with the latest version. The question then becomes, will that new pack include the heating capability? There is no cold weather package (seats, wheel, mirrors), but is the battery heater dependent on that particular part of the system?


There are different part numbers for 2011 replacement batteries depending upon whether the car has the cold weather package so the replacement battery would not have the heater if the car does not have the package.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6438
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Tue May 30, 2017 9:09 pm

There are different part numbers for 2011 replacement batteries depending upon whether the car has the cold weather package so the replacement battery would not have the heater if the car does not have the package.


But are they still making packs with no heaters? Are the heaters added last, and then get left off for 2011 cars?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Parrothead
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 7:46 am

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Wed May 31, 2017 2:18 pm

Latest is that Nissan will replace the pack and the dealership will tack a little onto the price to pay for their portion of the replacement. Price would end up around 8500, not including tax and license. After reading about others who didn't have the cold weather package, it makes me wonder if this is the appropriate vehicle or if I should wait on a newer vehicle this fall. As we all well know in the northern tier of states, and our Canadian neighbors, winter gets a bit nippy around here.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6438
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Wed May 31, 2017 4:02 pm

People have added heating pads to the packs, but the heated wheel and seats would really be notable by their absence.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Reddy
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Wed May 31, 2017 4:39 pm

Parrothead wrote:Latest is that Nissan will replace the pack and the dealership will tack a little onto the price to pay for their portion of the replacement. Price would end up around 8500, not including tax and license. After reading about others who didn't have the cold weather package, it makes me wonder if this is the appropriate vehicle or if I should wait on a newer vehicle this fall. As we all well know in the northern tier of states, and our Canadian neighbors, winter gets a bit nippy around here.
If you park inside an attached, insulated garage, you should be fine. It takes many hours for a battery to cool. Unless you park outside at both work and home, the battery should stay moderately warmer than ambient. That said, I specifically drain the battery down in my 2011 when temps get close to zero (not hard to do) and then recharge at 12 amps and 120V overnight for my 8 mi RT commute, timing the charging so that the battery is always charging. I've seen with LeafSpy that this helps a small amount, but it might not be the case at -10-20F. Given a choice today, I'd opt for the CW package just for the piece of mind. For longer commutes, you'd definitely need 240 V charging. Preheating with a 2011 isn't the greatest, especially if parked outside.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 47.45 AHr; 39,500 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:36 am

Since the car does not have the cold weather package, it does not have the controls/programming to manage a battery heater. It would probably be OK if you always park in an attached, insulated garage during cold nights. Preheat works fine with L2 charging, but it takes longer to heat water and then air so you need to have it start an hour before you want to leave. The dry heater in 2013 or later models is much faster.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

Parrothead
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 7:46 am

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:16 am

Reddy wrote:I've seen with LeafSpy that this helps a small amount, but it might not be the case at -10-20F. Given a choice today, I'd opt for the CW package just for the piece of mind. For longer commutes, you'd definitely need 240 V charging. Preheating with a 2011 isn't the greatest, especially if parked outside.


Yeah, the biggest issue is that it would never be inside, always outside. While it may not get down to -20 or -30 F often, there was a stretch a couple years ago when it never got above -10 for two weeks. Not optimal. May just get a beater ICE for the time being, sell one of the SUVs, hold onto the other so we can build up cash and wait for the right time and range.

phxsmiley
Forum Supporter
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 7837
Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:07 am

My current commute is approximately 48 miles roundtrip on I-10/202, and I was able to do that commute with my 2011 Leaf, with 4 bar loss (4BL). I now have a new Lizard battery, so the commute is much more comfortable. I have no workplace charging, so the problem with the Leaf (at 4 bar loss) is that the commute home is uncomfortable, as you have to control your speed to preserve battery - and that sometimes means staying out of the HOV lane. The A/C is very efficient, so even with 110-115 degree heat on occasion, range isn't significantly affected. The heater was a much bigger problem, as it draws a lot more power on my 2011, as it is a resistive element.

With a 4BL battery, any deviation from your normal route (ie, Doctor's appointment, Dentist appointment) is stressful, as you have to find (and make time for) charging to make it home. I recommend that you try to identify charging stations for your commute home, if necessary. For instance, I knew where the 'reliable' DC chargers were, and would often use them if I had a day that required more range.
Glacier Pearl SL-e, Delivered Aug 26th, 2011
Current Miles: 80,500 Miles (Oct 25th, 2016); Capacity Bars: 12/12;
EV Project; EVSE Upgrade Rev2

Reddy
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Agonizing over buying this '12 Leaf w/ Mar 2017 Battery

Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:12 pm

Parrothead wrote:
Reddy wrote:I've seen with LeafSpy that this helps a small amount, but it might not be the case at -10-20F. Given a choice today, I'd opt for the CW package just for the piece of mind. For longer commutes, you'd definitely need 240 V charging. Preheating with a 2011 isn't the greatest, especially if parked outside.


Yeah, the biggest issue is that it would never be inside, always outside. While it may not get down to -20 or -30 F often, there was a stretch a couple years ago when it never got above -10 for two weeks. Not optimal. May just get a beater ICE for the time being, sell one of the SUVs, hold onto the other so we can build up cash and wait for the right time and range.
Ok, in this situation, I would DEFINITELY NOT purchase a 2011, and probably not even the 2012. Get the 6 KW charger so you can preheat faster. Extreme cold is not easy on any mechanical device, including gasoline engines, and is especially difficult on people and batteries. If you can keep the battery above 32F, you'll get better performance. I had zero temperature bars and 0F one day last winter and my 2011 SL performed perfectly, with heat cranked using 5 KW, but only for about 20 mi (8 mi commute and a couple of errands). It was still much easier and more enjoyable than my old ICE that never warms up on my short in-town trips.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 47.45 AHr; 39,500 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

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