Considering a used LEAF

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HomerCooper

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
6
Location
Minnesota
Hello I'm from Minnesota,US. Looking at getting a used leaf. I'm apox 40mins west of the cites.
My daily commute is 4 miles. I avg 50 mile a week.
A quick charger is apox 5 miles away powered by solar. $12/hr.
2013 or newer.

Questions
How well does this car handle winter. Snow/ice etc?

What models should i look for?
SV id assume as id like the lvl 3 port.

Whats a good price?


Can basic work like tires and brakes be done at a std shop. As the nearest leaf dealer is in the cities 40 miles away.
 
Welcome!

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
HomerCooper said:
2013 or newer.
...
What models should i look for?
SV id assume as id like the lvl 3 port.

Whats a good price?
'13 SV does NOT come with quick charge (CHAdeMO) inlet. To get that, you need one of these for a '13 (and should be the same for '14):
- S trim w/charge package
- SV trim w/LED headlights + quick charge package (I just call it QC + LED package)
- SL trim

See Specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit. See packages at the bottom of Specs page. You should be able to find press kits for others years by merely changing the year in the above URL.

As for price, every market is different. Here are some in my area, for reference: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?sort=priceasc&auto_make_model=nissan+leaf&min_auto_year=2013&max_auto_year=2013. Change the model year on the left to what you desire.

DC fast charging is often (incorrectly) called "level 3". It makes some sense since it's higher and faster than 2...

Yes, tires can be done anywhere that sells and installs tires.
 
He's in Minnesota, Cwerdna.

You want an SV because it comes with a heatpump that uses much less power for heating than an S, except in frigid weather. You want one built after march of 2013, for better battery life. With your low range needs, I suggest you look for one with one 'capacity bar' already lost - they cost less. You could also get one with two bars lost, but most of those are early builds that would tend to keep losing bars.
 
fd01ebed43a6451b6246b238b12e080b.jpg

Local Leaf in my area selling for $10k
2014 SV
 
HomerCooper said:
Hello I'm from Minnesota,US. Looking at getting a used leaf. I'm apox 40mins west of the cites.
My daily commute is 4 miles. I avg 50 mile a week.
A quick charger is apox 5 miles away powered by solar. $12/hr.
2013 or newer.

Questions
How well does this car handle winter. Snow/ice etc?

What models should i look for?
SV id assume as id like the lvl 3 port.

Whats a good price?


Can basic work like tires and brakes be done at a std shop. As the nearest leaf dealer is in the cities 40 miles away.
With your distances, any Leaf would work. Even with a S model(no heat pump) in the worst bitter cold sub zero temps, I never saw less than ~35-40 miles range. Other than that winter range is generally 60 miles winter and 70+ summer.
$12/hr sounds crazy high, even for a QC, plugging in at home should cost less than $1, but it's your choice. Many of the public L2s around here are free, it's best to get a Leaf with the faster 6.6kw charger to double your charging speed on such charges. With the 6.6kw charger it takes just a little over 3hrs to full charge, about double wiith the 3.3kw charger.
The Leaf handles quite well in snow ice, better than our other cars. That said it's not a SUV or Pickup and your somewhat limited by the normalish height(for a sedan) so don't expect to be able to drive through 6-12" of snow. Handling on ice is "OK" with the factory Ecopia tires, MUCH better with snow/ice tires but expect a range drop up to 10% as they aren't as efficient as the OEM tires.
As Leftie said, the SV or SL have the more efficient heat pump. In your case it sounds like range is of very little concern so I wouldn't overlook the S(I have one) but if you do I'd strongly suggest one with the "charger" package which gives you the double speed L2 as well as QC port you asked about. I use preheat with my S along with steering wheel and seat heat, so I don't end up using my heater all that much. The heat pump is nice for coolish days or foggy days though, but if range is of little concern again the S might be OK. Oh if CC is a must, stick with the SV or above, no cruise on a older S.
Prices really vary but $10k for a 12 bar SV isn't terrible, just make sure it's got a QC if thats important. I'd think you could get a 12 bar S w/QC for a grand or more less. Not a lot of "great" deals currently on Leafs in MSP, in fact prices seem to have risen several thousand dollars since winter.
 
Just looking at this point considering my options.
Does the 6.6KW charger require a custom install then? 30amp breaker and all that
3.3kw is just 110v.
 
HomerCooper said:
Just looking at this point considering my options.
Does the 6.6KW charger require a custom install then? 30amp breaker and all that
3.3kw is just 110v.
You'd need a 40a breaker to be able to charge at 6.6kw at home, most commercial L2 stations are capable of that.
With a 3.3kw Leaf your maximum charge rate would be 16a @ 240v and require a 20a circuit.
Charging at 120v(which can be done with any Leaf) is only 1.4kw and quite slow(about 20hrs from an almost dead battery to full.
Charging is always the lowest of either your EVSE(the part you plug in the wall) or vehicle charger(the part built in your car). If you have a 6.6kw charger but only a 3.3kw EVSE, your Leaf will only charge at the 3.3kw rate. Same thing for using a 6.6kw EVSE on a Leaf with only a 3.3kw charger, it will only max out at 3.3kw.
Obviously if you plug a 6.6kw EVSE into a 6.6kw Leaf charger but your only on a 20a circuit, your home circuit breaker will blow. Your circuit breaker is only rated for 80% of it's maximum draw. That is a 20a breaker will only supply 16a continuously while a 30a breaker will only supply 24a continuously, hence the need for a 40a breaker for a device like a 6.6kw charger that will draw 27.5a continuously, it's a tad too high for a 30a breaker.
 
Ah Ok, So a custom install would be required then. what would that cost?
Does Nissan set that up even if bought used via a dealer?
Wayzata Nissan seems to be the only place that deals with Leafs.
 
HomerCooper said:
Ah Ok, So a custom install would be required then. what would that cost?
Does Nissan set that up even if bought used via a dealer?
Wayzata Nissan seems to be the only place that deals with Leafs.
Wayzata is a decent place to get a used Leaf, I purchased my '12 from them.
Installing a 240v circuit has lots of variables, can cost anywhere from a couple hundred dollars to thousands of dollars. You'd really need an electrician or someone knowledgeable in wiring to look at things. Note with your limited mileage you could also just get by with 120v home charging, many people do, and just use QC in a pinch or faster L2 chargers at places like HiVee or even Wayzata Nissan, who has both QC and fast L2. The reason I like the 6.6kw Leafs is I can plug into a fast L2 charge station for just an hour and gain 30% charge on my battery, with a 3.3kw Leaf it would only be 15%, but again with your limited use 15% may just be fine, it's up to you.
With a S model Leaf it's either the 3.3kw charger and no QC or 6.6kw charger AND QC, with a SV they all come with a QC, it's just a matter if it has the option for the faster 6.6kw L2 charger. The SL models all come with both standard(models made after '12, before '13 they and all Leafs only had the 3.3kw charger).
 
Just in case the OP is confused...

The charger is the device that's built into the Leaf and not something that Nissan would upgrade. For all S models that do not include the charge package, the onboard charger is 3.6 kw. For SV/SL models, the onboard charger is 6.6 kw.

The device that you plug the car into is not a charger, it's called an EVSE (L2). The rate of charge from those devices is dictated by the Leaf's onboard charger, so a base model S would always charge at a max rate of 3.6 kw. An S with the charge package or SV/SL would charge at a rate of 6.6 kw on that same EVSE.
 
^^^
Yep. The above case assumes the L2 EVSE is a 30 amp or greater EVSE (max power delivery rate as Clipper Creek calls it below).
30 amps * 240 volts = 7,200 watts = 7.2 kW

These may help.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=332668#p332668
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630

https://www.clippercreek.com/three-things-determine-ev-charge-time/
https://www.clippercreek.com/ev-charging-station-will-provide-fastest-charge-electric-vehicle/
https://www.clippercreek.com/charging-times-chart/

Which OBC the Leaf has dictates its max acceptance rate on L2.
 
If I should get a Leaf the SV model seems to be the way to go.
110v plug at 21.43hrs charge time from near depletion isn't too bad. As I'd likely plug it in every other day or something.
Having the 6.6kw version future proofs it if I should update the wall plug. The garage has an unused 220v plug from an old heater. So upgrading the system maybe possible for a lower cost.

Still looking for a bit so maybe closer to end of summer before I get a new car. Just seeing what my best options are. An EV seems like a good way to go.
 
Based on your use case, the difference between the two different chargers won't make a big difference. Either the 6.6 or the 3.6 will get you a full battery by morning.

You will want to try to leverage a 240 volt source though as in Minnesota you will probably occasionally want to use the pre-heat function in the mornings to have the car nice and toasty when you get in. Pre-heat and pre-cool work best on 240 as they don't have to use any charge from the battery. When plugged into 120, the car battery is used for pre-heat and pre-cool.

There is a chart on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector that can help you identify the type of plug the heater is using. My guess is that it's probably a 6-15 or 6-20. You can send the stock EVSE included with the car to http://evseupgrade.com and they will convert it to 240 for a reasonable price and provide the appropriate adapter for the outlet already in your garage. That would save a significant cost on hiring an electrician.

Best of luck!
 
Pre-heat and pre-cool work best on 240 as they don't have to use any charge from the battery. When plugged into 120, the car battery is used for pre-heat and pre-cool.

Almost right, but in fact the car always uses the pack to preheat and pre-cool. If you can add an equal or greater amount of charge at the same time, the net result is either no charge lost, or some gained. But the car doesn't actually use the house current from the EVSE for the climate control - it's always from the pack.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Pre-heat and pre-cool work best on 240 as they don't have to use any charge from the battery. When plugged into 120, the car battery is used for pre-heat and pre-cool.

Almost right, but in fact the car always uses the pack to preheat and pre-cool. If you can add an equal or greater amount of charge at the same time, the net result is either no charge lost, or some gained. But the car doesn't actually use the house current from the EVSE for the climate control - it's always from the pack.
And in my case anyway, I've found I need to add about 18a @ 240v to offset the amount of current required to preheat in very cold weather. IOW with my '12 and it's 3.3kw charger(16a @ 240v max) I slightly lose my SOC% during a full 30 minute preheat(I lose 2-3%) whereas on my '13 with the 6.6kw charger but my EVSE set to 19a @ 240v, I can slightly gain SOC% during a full 30 minute preheat(I can gain 2-3%). Of course with a 30a EVSE and my '13 I can gain quite a bit SOC% even while preheating.
I know this because in the bitter cold when I need my charge the most on my '12, it's a bummer to lose a few SOC% from full charge but again the internal charger just isn't enough to overcome full morning preheat :(
 
Yes, no problem. If the temps are sub zero at some point the battery warmer may come on, it doesn't draw much but it's to protect the battery and will drop your SOC% a point or two.
The nice thing about a Leaf(post '12) is it starts putting out heat in less than a minute, because it doesn't have to first warm up the engine, then antifreeze, post '12 Leafs in frigid temps all use a direct coil to air heater. The older Leafs used an antifreeze loop and newer Leafs with a heat pump use that down to about the teens after which the heat coil kicks in.
If you had even a simple 120v outlet at work, that would help but isn't necessary unless you need the charge.
 
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