Maxvla
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:02 pm

2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:16 pm

Hello again, I haven't been here in a while since I tried to lease a Leaf in 2013 but couldn't get terms I wanted. I took a break from car shopping for a while and have come back 4 years later while looking at the off-lease cars at decent prices.

Leafs are very rare in my area, so selection is almost nil, but I did come across one being sold by a Nissan dealership. Here are the details:

2014 SL w/QC+premium, ~32k miles, white. Dash shows 12 bars, (my bluetooth OBD2 is still in shipment) with an average of 3.7 miles/kW - Their offer $10,800 + 700 Doc fee. KBB.com dealer purchase estimate - $10,700-13,700.

My trade: 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix 59.4k miles, clean and everything works. I've owned it for 10 years - Their offer $2000. KBB.com = $2000-2700.

Condition of the Leaf:

At least a dozen door dings on passenger side, sloppily filled with non-matching white paint (stark white, instead of pearlescent), pretty deep ones. I'm not very happy about those. Otherwise, a few minor scuffs and dings here and there, but nothing unusual for a used car.

The interior was rather gross. It was as if someone used the same cloth (without rinsing) to "clean" the entire interior, which is probably exactly what happened. Every glossy plastic part had an oily film on it, the seats still had food crumbs.

Test drive went well, no issues.

I checked every function, every switch, every handle, every button. Everything worked, except... and here's my question... the heater. What I've read on here is that the heat pump should give near-instant heat, since it doesn't rely on an ICE to provide heat. The air blowing from the vents was ambient temperature, approximately. I had it set to Heat and the maximum of 90 degrees F and the fan speed up, a manual configuration. I tested the heater before, during, and at the end of the test drive, just to give it multiple chances, with the same result. The salesman was not familiar with the Leaf, so was unable to help. He talked to the manager and we went back out to the car and tried it with the same result. While out there, he said a few things about the Leaf I knew to be completely untrue, though with great authority. Then, when the direct topic of the heater came up, he stated that the car was 'Smart' and since it was 80F outside, the car would not generate heat because it would drain the battery (and also over heat it!!). His thought was that when the temperature was lower, the heater would actually generate heat. Is there any truth to this? Is anyone able to test their Leaf in similar conditions and receive warmer air from their vents?

Putting the heater aside for the moment, assume it works fine, how does this deal sound? I have not tried negotiating at all, this was just a test drive and info gathering visit. I will be getting a quote for a thorough detailing and negotiate that into the price. I will probably put them on hold until I get my OBDII adapter to fully check the battery health, but honestly none of these guys know anything about the Leaf and I doubt they could figure out how to reset the dash battery read out, or even know that it was important. The offer on my Grand Prix is low-ball, but at least within KBB value range. I can try to get a few hundred more. It's clean, but also 12 years old. I'm ready to get out of it while everything still works. It's a miracle a GM product has been this reliable for so long.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7174
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:42 pm

If the car was Cruddy and that bothers you, I suggest you pass. It's actually possible that with an ambient temp of 80F the HVAC temp sensor was reading 90F or more and that prevented the heater from running, but don't count on that. Look for a car that wasn't abused. If the heater does work and you still want it, offer at least $1k less. It would take that much to fix the paint.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:17 pm

Sounds like an awful offer. I paid $8,300 for a LEAF in like-new condition.
New 30 kWh LEAFS with an improved warranty are being sold all over the country with a $7,500 federal tax credit, $10,000 local discounts usually arranged with a local utility or EV advocacy group, and state credits, and a few thousand more from the dealer.

And regarding "12 bars." That leaves a lot of room for wonder. The battery health can be anywhere from new to ~ 85%.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7174
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:31 pm

Yes. I always tell people with no LeafSpy to assume that any 12 bar car is an 11 bar car, plus a tiny bit. There is also the possibility of a BMS reset.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

powersurge
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:07 am

Nothing you have said sounds like a car you really like... why even bother considering it? Stop talking yourself into it..

joeriv
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: Fairfield County CT

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:00 am

New 30 kWh LEAFS with an improved warranty are being sold all over the country with a $7,500 federal tax credit, $10,000 local discounts usually arranged with a local utility or EV advocacy group, and state credits, and a few thousand more from the dealer.


That's what I did - 2017s are cheap with all the rebates available. After rebates you're spending almost the same for used.
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12233
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:08 am

I would keep looking. There are some interior issues that literally can't be fixed. Guessing the dealership already tried getting it detailed and looking like that didn't work. I wouldn't risk it. not for $10K anyway...

as far as "instant heat?" there is no such thing in the automotive world.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maxvla
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:22 am

Thanks for the advice. Honestly the only points that bother me are the passenger side door dings and the potentially broken heater. A proper detailing will take care of the nastiness inside. I could live with the door dings, they aren't really visible until you are close. I did some searching on the forums here about the heater and found some threads where models with heat pumps had to have heater parts replaced 3-4+ times, sometimes on cars with as few as 3000 miles on them. This leads me to believe the heater probably is broken, as the symptoms sound similar to those described. In that case, I will pass.

SageBrush wrote:New 30 kWh LEAFS with an improved warranty are being sold all over the country with a $7,500 federal tax credit, $10,000 local discounts usually arranged with a local utility or EV advocacy group, and state credits, and a few thousand more from the dealer.

That would certainly be interesting, but I do not make enough to have a high enough tax burden to get the full $7500 federal, I'd get barely half. I'm also in an area where there currently are no $10,000 local discounts or state credits. In fact, Oklahoma has tax credits for Natural Gas vehicles (seeing as that is a major industry here), but charges $100 per year for all-electric vehicles. This state is all about trucks and muscle cars.

powersurge wrote:Nothing you have said sounds like a car you really like... why even bother considering it? Stop talking yourself into it..

I don't think I'm talking myself into it, just laying out the important points for those with more Leaf experience to help me decide. I've been shopping for a replacement for my Grand Prix for about 4 years now. I'm not talking myself into anything, just taking it slow and being logical.

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12233
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:28 am

Maxvla wrote:That would certainly be interesting, but I do not make enough to have a high enough tax burden to get the full $7500 federal, I'd get barely half. I'm also in an area where there currently are no $10,000 local discounts or state credits. In fact, Oklahoma has tax credits for Natural Gas vehicles (seeing as that is a major industry here), but charges $100 per year for all-electric vehicles. This state is all about trucks and muscle cars.



I wouldn't discount the option until I investigated lease options. You are HIGHLY likely to be able purchase at the end of the lease for only a few thousand more (or less) than that used 2014 24kwh LEAF.

Realize you get newer car, bigger battery, etc.

Also realize Nissan has been very open to negotiating the residual at the end of the lease. In 3 years with 60 kwh EVs running around all over the place, you will have a pretty decent bargaining position.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7174
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2014 SL - seeking advice and have a question

Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:34 am

Gods, Dave, stop with the misinformation! Nissan has NOT "been very open" to negotiating residuals until very recently, and now it's the local dealerships who negotiate, not Nissan. Nissan has always just offered fixed residual discounts that vary month to month, and that's still what's happening - it's just the dealers who get the discount now.

I did some searching on the forums here about the heater and found some threads where models with heat pumps had to have heater parts replaced 3-4+ times, sometimes on cars with as few as 3000 miles on them. This leads me to believe the heater probably is broken, as the symptoms sound similar to those described.


Cars with the heatpump have two heating units: the heatpump and a resistance heater. It's not uncommon for one of them to fail, but is uncommon for both. You may be thinking of issues with the S, in which the single resistance heater fails.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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