jake14mw
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut, USA

Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:18 pm

Hi All,

I have been investigating getting a used Leaf for about a week now. Watched a ton of videos, and looked around here. I have Mazda CX-9 and a 2004 Acura TL. This would be a third car with four drivers in the house. The idea is that we would use the Leaf for as much local driving as possible, to lessen the gas and maintanence costs of the other vehicles.

1) I am looking for a 2013 or greater SL or SV. I had casually looked into a used Leaf about a year ago, and it seems like there were many more available then, and they had lower prices. Why is that?

2) The fact that the newer cars have the faster 6.6kw charging rate only applies to level 2 charging, right? It is of no benefit to level 1 charging?

3) Sounds like level 1 charging is crazy slow, and I would have to buy a level 2 charger. So for that, I should budget $400 for the charger and a few hundred for electical work? I have a dryer outlet on a wall that is shared with the garage. Should that make the electical work easier?

4) What is this 2G issue I have been reading about? What does that affect?

5) Do I need to buy that analyzer thing to aid in my shopping?

6) I normally keep my cars a long time. Once the battery wears enough where the range is annoyingly short, the cost of replacement is around $5000?

7) Any suggestions on where to look to find cars? Autotrader, Cars, Craigslist?

Thanks for your help, I'm excited about getting a Leaf. Hoping to get one for about $10,000.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7138
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:39 pm

If you get a 2013 make sure the build month on the driver's door sill sticker is AFTER March of 2013. Earlier builds have the older, fast-degrading battery. Market fluctuations and some other factors have driven the prices up. They may come down in a few months if the Federal credit remains for new cars, or go even higher if it goes away. The LeafSpy app, along with a specific dongle to read the car's diagnostic port, is used to check battery health. If you don't use it, then assume a car showing all 12 battery capacity "bars" on the dash has 11, plus a little more. Beware auctioned cars, because the battery management system can be reset to show 12 bars when there are fewer, and will take weeks to "relearn" the actual capacity. Sometimes these resets even fool LeafSpy.

The faster onboard charger is indeed only faster for L-2 charging. L-1 is the same speed for all Leafs with the OEM charging cable. Having a dryer outlet makes it much cheaper to use an L-2 charging station. I suggest a Clipper Creek unit, and ask them to pre-wire it with the correct dryer-type plug.

The 2G/3G issue applies only to SV and SL models built before mid (I think) 2015. There is a $200 upgrade to restore the car's ability to communicate remotely with Nissan's servers, but it has proven problematic for a number of people, causing as many problems as it solves. Some have had no issues with it. If you have no need to activate the car's climate control system remotely, I suggest you not roll the dice on that.

Battery pack replacement cost is more like $6000, unless you are lucky enough to find a car that has lost four or more capacity bars, but hasn't passed 60,000 miles or been in service for a day longer than 5 years. In that case it's free.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

jjeff
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:25 am

2. No benefit if just using the factory EVSE but with the upgraded charger(in the car) you can(if you have the correct EVSE and circuit) charge at more than 2x the factory EVSE charge rate, at 120v. L2 or 240v is really the way to go, but 120v can also charge faster than the OEM EVSE, with the right equipment. Yes your dryer outlet could be re-purposed but you could not use both your dryer and charge at the same time. A member here on MNL sells something called a dryer buddy that shares the load, that is after your dryer is done, automatically gives the power to your EVSE but note it might not pass code wiring things between the wall like you'd need to do.

You should be able to fine what your describing for <$10k, probably a S with the charger package that or a SV or SL which will be harder to find. As you've probably read with the SV/SL you among other things gain a more efficient heat pump heater, which can add 10 or more miles to your range if using the heater and above the single digits F.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

jake14mw
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:11 am

jjeff wrote:2. No benefit if just using the factory EVSE but with the upgraded charger(in the car) you can(if you have the correct EVSE and circuit) charge at more than 2x the factory EVSE charge rate, at 120v. L2 or 240v is really the way to go, but 120v can also charge faster than the OEM EVSE, with the right equipment. Yes your dryer outlet could be re-purposed but you could not use both your dryer and charge at the same time. A member here on MNL sells something called a dryer buddy that shares the load, that is after your dryer is done, automatically gives the power to your EVSE but note it might not pass code wiring things between the wall like you'd need to do.

You should be able to fine what your describing for <$10k, probably a S with the charger package that or a SV or SL which will be harder to find. As you've probably read with the SV/SL you among other things gain a more efficient heat pump heater, which can add 10 or more miles to your range if using the heater and above the single digits F.


Thanks, I'm interested in this 2x rate for 120v charging. What should I search for?

hackdroot
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Apr 2017
Location: East Bay Area, CA

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:10 am

Not sure where you're located (you should really update your location in your profile since geographic area will help members answer your questions), but you may qualify for certain incentives in your area.

For instance, my electric utility PG&E gave me $500 towards the installation on my L2 charger, which paid for most of it. I installed the ClipperCreek HCS-40P, 240V, 32A, EV Charging Station, $589 from Amazon. Charges my leaf to full in less than 3.5 hours.

Also, there's the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit which allows up to $1000 to be claimed on your 2017 taxes for you EV charging station installation.
2013 Leaf SL (12/2013) + Premium package 31,000 miles - 58.8AHr - 89%SOH

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 4476
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:27 pm

jake14mw wrote:
jjeff wrote:2. No benefit if just using the factory EVSE but with the upgraded charger(in the car) you can(if you have the correct EVSE and circuit) charge at more than 2x the factory EVSE charge rate, at 120v. L2 or 240v is really the way to go, but 120v can also charge faster than the OEM EVSE, with the right equipment. Yes your dryer outlet could be re-purposed but you could not use both your dryer and charge at the same time. A member here on MNL sells something called a dryer buddy that shares the load, that is after your dryer is done, automatically gives the power to your EVSE but note it might not pass code wiring things between the wall like you'd need to do.

You should be able to fine what your describing for <$10k, probably a S with the charger package that or a SV or SL which will be harder to find. As you've probably read with the SV/SL you among other things gain a more efficient heat pump heater, which can add 10 or more miles to your range if using the heater and above the single digits F.


Thanks, I'm interested in this 2x rate for 120v charging. What should I search for?


The reason that the supplied EVSE Level1 charges @ 12A is that standard household circuits are 15A. For continuous load, a device is only allowed to consume 80% of the rated current. To take advantage of faster Level1, you first need a 120V circuit capable of 30A. That's heavier wiring and very rare to find in homes since there aren't very many devices that need it. Heavier appliances (ovens, dryers) run at 240V. If you do have access to a 30A 120V circuit, then you can purchase an EVSE that is configured to work at the higher Level1 rate.

My first recommendation is to involve an electrician for inspection and recommendations. There are questions that aren't often addressed here that are nevertheless important to answer before deciding on a solution, such as

-- load calculations
-- local electrical code
-- are permits required
-- condition and applicability of present wiring

EV charging is a large, continuous electrical load. It's well worth the expense of making sure it's being handled properly.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

jake14mw
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:27 pm

hackdroot wrote:Not sure where you're located (you should really update your location in your profile since geographic area will help members answer your questions), but you may qualify for certain incentives in your area.

For instance, my electric utility PG&E gave me $500 towards the installation on my L2 charger, which paid for most of it. I installed the ClipperCreek HCS-40P, 240V, 32A, EV Charging Station, $589 from Amazon. Charges my leaf to full in less than 3.5 hours.

Also, there's the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit which allows up to $1000 to be claimed on your 2017 taxes for you EV charging station installation.


Thanks, that seems like great information. I am in Connecticut. You got me excited there for a minute, but I did a little googling and I don't see any incentives for a used EV purchase for CT. I am looking into the Federal Property Credit that you referenced. It looks like it's a tax credit of 30% of what you spent on the install? That includes labor costs?

jake14mw
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:32 pm

Nubo wrote:
jake14mw wrote:
jjeff wrote:2. No benefit if just using the factory EVSE but with the upgraded charger(in the car) you can(if you have the correct EVSE and circuit) charge at more than 2x the factory EVSE charge rate, at 120v. L2 or 240v is really the way to go, but 120v can also charge faster than the OEM EVSE, with the right equipment. Yes your dryer outlet could be re-purposed but you could not use both your dryer and charge at the same time. A member here on MNL sells something called a dryer buddy that shares the load, that is after your dryer is done, automatically gives the power to your EVSE but note it might not pass code wiring things between the wall like you'd need to do.

You should be able to fine what your describing for <$10k, probably a S with the charger package that or a SV or SL which will be harder to find. As you've probably read with the SV/SL you among other things gain a more efficient heat pump heater, which can add 10 or more miles to your range if using the heater and above the single digits F.


Thanks, I'm interested in this 2x rate for 120v charging. What should I search for?


The reason that the supplied EVSE Level1 charges @ 12A is that standard household circuits are 15A. For continuous load, a device is only allowed to consume 80% of the rated current. To take advantage of faster Level1, you first need a 120V circuit capable of 30A. That's heavier wiring and very rare to find in homes since there aren't very many devices that need it. Heavier appliances (ovens, dryers) run at 240V. If you do have access to a 30A 120V circuit, then you can purchase an EVSE that is configured to work at the higher Level1 rate.

My first recommendation is to involve an electrician for inspection and recommendations. There are questions that aren't often addressed here that are nevertheless important to answer before deciding on a solution, such as

-- load calculations
-- local electrical code
-- are permits required
-- condition and applicability of present wiring

EV charging is a large, continuous electrical load. It's well worth the expense of making sure it's being handled properly.


Good advice, thanks very much!

hackdroot
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Apr 2017
Location: East Bay Area, CA

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:08 pm

jake14mw wrote:
Thanks, that seems like great information. I am in Connecticut. You got me excited there for a minute, but I did a little googling and I don't see any incentives for a used EV purchase for CT. I am looking into the Federal Property Credit that you referenced. It looks like it's a tax credit of 30% of what you spent on the install? That includes labor costs?


Consult your tax professional on this, but if I paid for professional installation or an electrician (which I did not), I would include it in the cost since the wording on Form 8911 states:

"Total cost of qualified alternative fuel vehicle refueling property placed in service during the tax year"

I did save the receipts from Home Depot for my installation materials however (wire, conduit, outlet, breaker, etc). All of this only matters during an audit of course.
2013 Leaf SL (12/2013) + Premium package 31,000 miles - 58.8AHr - 89%SOH

jjeff
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Potential New Buyer - Some questions

Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:41 pm

Nubo answered your question quite well but to answer your question about what EVSE will do 30a @ 120v, my Zencar will and so will Juicebox EVSEs. Both will do 30a on either 240v(L2) or 120v(L1). As Nubo said, a 30a circuit is really only rated for 24a continuous use, but that will still be 2x as fast as the OEM Leaf EVSE. Such high amperage 120v outlets aren't common but they do exist and you really need a EVSE where you can easily dial down the maximum current. Note most L2 EVSEs will come with a 240v plug(often times a 14-50 or sometimes a L6-30) so to plug them into a 30a 120v outlet you'd need to build an outlet adapter, not sure you'd ever find one on the shelf. I've built many such outlet adapters allowing me to plug into many high amperage 120v and 240v outlet adapters, parts for a DIY adapter are generally ~$20-$30 including about a foot of 10 gauge wire to hook things together with.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Return to “Buying / Leasing / Dealerships”