alozzy
Posts: 1004
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:41 pm

My 2013 SV will probably be the only car I will ever own that actually pays me to own it. Our primary car was a 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe, that consumes about 15 l of gas per 100 km (15 mpg) - pretty brutal.

We were consistently spending over $400 per month on gas, prior to buying our LEAF.

Now, we spend about $50 per month on gas and $40 on electricity, as the Santa Fe is rarely used. So, net monthly savings is at least $310 per month. We purchased the LEAF outright, but had we financed the purchase on a 5 year loan the payments would be about $200 per month. So, even considering loan payments, we would still save $110 per month.

FYI, gas prices in Vancouver are predicted to go as high as $2 / liter this summer, which is roughly $6 US per gallon! At that price, a tank of gas for the Santa Fe would be $130 (65 liter tank).

Buying a LEAF is, so far, the best car buying decision I've ever made. The rapid depreciation made it affordable for us as a used car purchase, but with gas prices the way they are now even buying new (or leasing) would make sense vs a new ICE - at least, in Vancouver with expected gas prices.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

Evoforce
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:28 pm

SageBrush wrote:I don't think that is it. I've read multiple reports of people who decide to sell a Gen1 LEAF with a new battery (purchased or warranty) who do not get that much more money than a car otherwise similar with an old battery. It does not make economic sense, and I think it represents an information gap that can be exploited for profit. Of course, the existence of the market inefficiency implies widespread ignorance. The seller would have to be a patient and a talented communicator to educate the buyer and dispel any lingering FUD regarding the car that crapped out so early.

I know that when I bought my LEAF last year I considered buying a LEAF on its last battery legs but I don't live in the best part of the country for that approach and I was under the wrong impression that the replacement battery would only have a one year warranty. I thought at the time that a LEAF with a proven track record of slow battery degradation was a better bet than taking whatever Nissan had on the shelf.

The early adopters are probably a different story. They may feel screwed by Nissan after spending ~ $26k on a car that lasted 5 years and just want to walk away, or they are pursuing the next great EV. The Tesla forum is stuffed with current and former LEAF owners.


I was told, more than once, the traction battery only has a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. What information do you have that makes this no longer the case? Have they made a recent change of policy?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

Evoforce
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:48 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
DarthPuppy wrote:I concur. I'm guessing the battery replacement must be rather daunting. So few people on this forum seem willing to consider that. And if the early adopters won't undertake that, I doubt many in the general used car market will go for that approach.

It isn't just the battery. There are other things that can and will fail on the car for which Nissan controls the cost of replacement parts. Witness $3k for a parking brake actuator and $480 just for some little water pump.
I'll be surprised if many of these cars are still on the road after 10 years.


The 2011 vehicles are not far away from the ten year mark. I would definitely hold on to these cars because (other than the traction battery and fading paint on rear upper hatch) my two are holding up very well. What we would like, are longer range batteries in our cars with TMS and a better warranty than 12 months/12,000 miles. Although, right now, we have one too many Leafs and I need to decide what to do with one of them. There is no money in selling it...
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

lorenfb
Posts: 1776
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:24 pm

Evoforce wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I don't think that is it. I've read multiple reports of people who decide to sell a Gen1 LEAF with a new battery (purchased or warranty) who do not get that much more money than a car otherwise similar with an old battery. It does not make economic sense, and I think it represents an information gap that can be exploited for profit. Of course, the existence of the market inefficiency implies widespread ignorance. The seller would have to be a patient and a talented communicator to educate the buyer and dispel any lingering FUD regarding the car that crapped out so early.

I know that when I bought my LEAF last year I considered buying a LEAF on its last battery legs but I don't live in the best part of the country for that approach and I was under the wrong impression that the replacement battery would only have a one year warranty. I thought at the time that a LEAF with a proven track record of slow battery degradation was a better bet than taking whatever Nissan had on the shelf.

The early adopters are probably a different story. They may feel screwed by Nissan after spending ~ $26k on a car that lasted 5 years and just want to walk away, or they are pursuing the next great EV. The Tesla forum is stuffed with current and former LEAF owners.


I was told, more than once, the traction battery only has a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. What information do you have that makes this no longer the case? Have they made a recent change of policy?


Yes, where's the info corroborating anything greater than 12/12,000, which is typically the case for all automotive parts. The exception
is when the Feds mandate greater warranties, e.g. emissions systems. Why would any automotive OEM want to "sign-up" for an on-going
liability greater than one year? Benevolence/goodwill in the automotive business is basically non-existent. This issue has been discussed
in other threads, and some continue to expect Nissan to change from its hard-line approach even for an original battery replacement,
without referencing "the fine print".
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F, min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12989
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:08 pm

Evoforce wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I don't think that is it. I've read multiple reports of people who decide to sell a Gen1 LEAF with a new battery (purchased or warranty) who do not get that much more money than a car otherwise similar with an old battery. It does not make economic sense, and I think it represents an information gap that can be exploited for profit. Of course, the existence of the market inefficiency implies widespread ignorance. The seller would have to be a patient and a talented communicator to educate the buyer and dispel any lingering FUD regarding the car that crapped out so early.

I know that when I bought my LEAF last year I considered buying a LEAF on its last battery legs but I don't live in the best part of the country for that approach and I was under the wrong impression that the replacement battery would only have a one year warranty. I thought at the time that a LEAF with a proven track record of slow battery degradation was a better bet than taking whatever Nissan had on the shelf.

The early adopters are probably a different story. They may feel screwed by Nissan after spending ~ $26k on a car that lasted 5 years and just want to walk away, or they are pursuing the next great EV. The Tesla forum is stuffed with current and former LEAF owners.


I was told, more than once, the traction battery only has a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty. What information do you have that makes this no longer the case? Have they made a recent change of policy?


no change in policy. The degradation warranty starts with delivery day and any replacement pack has the one year, 12,000 mile or the remainder of the original warranty, whichever is greater.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:07 am

@JPWhite has bought a replacement warranty and clarified in a PM to me that he received a 5yr/60k degradation warranty. Whether that is still true today is uncertain.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12989
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:19 am

SageBrush wrote:@JPWhite has bought a replacement warranty and clarified in a PM to me that he received a 5yr/60k degradation warranty. Whether that is still true today is uncertain.


that would only happen if he bought a new pack. warranty replacements do not reset the clock on the original pack but has a minimum 12 months that applies if its longer.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:00 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:@JPWhite has bought a replacement warranty and clarified in a PM to me that he received a 5yr/60k degradation warranty. Whether that is still true today is uncertain.


that would only happen if he bought a new pack. warranty replacements do not reset the clock on the original pack but has a minimum 12 months that applies if its longer.

Oops -- typo.

I meant to type that he bought a replacement pack.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:01 am

OK --- lol
supply equipment it is then

What a useless term
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12989
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 5-YEAR DEPRECIATION OF $27,170 = USED NISSAN LEAFS ARE A STEAL

Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:03 am

SageBrush wrote:OK --- lol
supply equipment it is then

What a useless term


Chalk it up to acronymisms gone wild.

Figured "CC" for charging cable might have been confusing... :lol:
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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