LeftieBiker
Posts: 9580
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 8:04 pm

The biggest reason is probably the decision by Nissan/NMAC to keep the Federal tax credit and only dole out a few thousand for the SV and SL. That was a Dick Move, and it's biting them on the ass now. The other things listed aren't helping either.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 8282
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 8:36 pm

techiefan wrote:The bug issue I came across was that they would not offer the 0% Nissan financing with all the discounts and rebates. They offered the 5.9% rate which I balked at and basically was going to walk as it was a deal breaker. I actually think I wore them down but that is wishful thinking as they are skilled craftsmen with only maximum profit in mind in my opinion.

I probably should have looked at the leasing options but in the past I was burnt by leasing and shy away from it. As I am reading here the downside currently is one will not get the full federal rebate

Offers vary all the time and are often regional (best to check https://www.choosenissan.com/). That said, it's common in the auto industry to offer either below market rate financing (e.g. 0 to 2% APR) OR cash but not both. Or, if you take the low financing, you get less cash or 0 back/rebate. The cheap loan is a form of incentive in itself.

As for the bolded part, there's a Federal tax credit ($7500 on Leaf), NOT a rebate.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 9:26 pm

I love offers of nice cash discount and a hefty loan rate.
I take the cash and refinance the loan.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 1845
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 9:32 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Upon returning today to the same Nissan dealer I spoke with about two weeks ago, i.e. leasing a '18 SV, to QC my Leaf, I discovered basically
the same 26 '18 Leafs in their inventory. Compound this with Nissan's recent plan to reduce production by 20%, the outlook for near term
Leaf sales may be problematic.

Based on the above, one might conclude that Leaf sales growth has stagnated for a number of reasons compared to the previous two
Leaf models (24/30 kWh):

1. Nissan has basically "milked" all of the potential sales growth from the early adopter BEV market.
2. Very low resale values for used Leaf's reflects badly on future buying decisions.
3. The media's exposure of the Leaf's problematic battery degradation has soured new buyer interest.
4. Noncompetitive Leaf pricing versus other potential vehicles, e.g. the Prius PHEV, has resulted in consumers finding other vehicles more
competitive based on TCO.
5. The Tesla M3 at a potential price of $35K, i.e. although not available in 2018 as per Tesla marketing, with many more appealing features,
e.g. range, not available in a Leaf, is considered a better choice. This is what I discussed previously as a major threat to the near term
future sales of the Bolt & Leaf, even though a $35K M3 may not be "real" ever.

The only one of the five that has any potential in the near term of boosting short term Leaf sales is number four. Nissan would, as a minimum,
need to reduce all Leaf prices about $7500 before any rebates/incentives. Without some aggressive Leaf sales effort, 2018 may be a dismal
sales year for the Leaf. We'll have a better idea on Friday when InsideEVs' report is available.

Yep.

Folks around here did not believe me a year ago. Reality is setting in.


Forgot to mention on #5;
Just review all the previous and present Leaf owners on MNL who now have bought a M3 or are on order for one, i.e. who "jumped ship".
It doesn't "hit home" more clearly than that!
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 70K miles, 49 Ahrs, 5.1 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

SageBrush
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 9:55 pm

lorenfb wrote:Forgot to mention on #5;
Just review all the previous and present Leaf owners on MNL who now have bought a M3 or are on order for one, i.e. who "jumped ship".
It doesn't "hit home" more clearly than that!

Early adopters were no more going to stay with the LEAF than they stayed with Toyota. The difference is that Toyota has +/- adapted by fielding a very value conscious Prius line while Nissan is stuck in a rut of local cars with short-lived batteries for $30k. Along with all the other LEAF problems (in terms of marketshare,) ChadeMo has turned out to be a poor choice to stake one's future on and the dealership location focus was frankly ... stupid.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

lorenfb
Posts: 1845
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 10:09 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Forgot to mention on #5;
Just review all the previous and present Leaf owners on MNL who now have bought a M3 or are on order for one, i.e. who "jumped ship".
It doesn't "hit home" more clearly than that!

Early adopters were no more going to stay with the LEAF than they stayed with Toyota. The difference is that Toyota has +/- adapted by fielding a very value conscious Prius line while Nissan is stuck in a rut of local cars with short-lived batteries for $30k. Along with all the other LEAF problems (in terms of marketshare,) ChadeMo has turned out to be a poor choice to stake one's future on and the dealership location focus was frankly ... stupid.


Yes, Nissan needs mucho help at corporate!
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 70K miles, 49 Ahrs, 5.1 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

SageBrush
Posts: 2841
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 10:39 pm

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Forgot to mention on #5;
Just review all the previous and present Leaf owners on MNL who now have bought a M3 or are on order for one, i.e. who "jumped ship".
It doesn't "hit home" more clearly than that!

Early adopters were no more going to stay with the LEAF than they stayed with Toyota. The difference is that Toyota has +/- adapted by fielding a very value conscious Prius line while Nissan is stuck in a rut of local cars with short-lived batteries for $30k. Along with all the other LEAF problems (in terms of marketshare,) ChadeMo has turned out to be a poor choice to stake one's future on and the dealership location focus was frankly ... stupid.


Yes, Nissan needs mucho help at corporate!

How could we forget #6 ?
They treat their LEAF customers like shit. This is why way more than just the early adopters have fled to Tesla.

It all seems kind of crazy, unless one accepts the premise that Nissan has decided that their gamble to become a major EV manufacturer has failed and for now they are going to be a CARB player. That premise leads to the following rational (but perhaps cold-hearted) actions:
1. Ditch money losing production assets
2. Reduce R&D to minimum
3. Subsidize car sales as needed to reach CARB quotas
4. Do not spend on customer retention or loyalty

This all makes sense to me, except for the way they treat current LEAF owners. After all, that group would have been the THE target market should they ever want to try the EV market again (say, with improved battery packs.) This burn your bridges and eat your children policy seems very short-sighted.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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