lorenfb
Posts: 1780
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Thu May 17, 2018 9:56 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
like2bike wrote:Did you find out anything new about the $7500 tax credit when leasing?


It's as I wrote in the topic about that: you don't get the $7500 credit passed on from NMAC anymore if you lease an SV or SL. Instead, you get a varying amount of lease cash from Nissan (I think I got about $3k) plus whatever local credits are available. I got about $4800 total, I think, counting a NY rebate of $2k. They also raise the residual a thousand or two to make the lease payment more tolerable. My residual is $17,388, while a month or two ago it would have been about $1k less. That makes my SL just about affordable to buy off lease, in the unlikely event the battery holds up well.


A few weeks ago while QCing at a Nissan SoCal dealer, I received a demo in a 2018 SL. The interior & exterior styling was fairly appealing
versus my '13 SL. At that time I didn't ask for a quote. Today, again QCing at the same dealer, I asked for a quote on a SV (no Pro),
$36, 350 MSRP. The sales person quoted it using my '13 SL (-2 bars, 63K) as a trade-in. The residual used was $15K, no down, 3 yr lease,
$200/month tax and license. Without the trade-in, $400/month (or basically $200/month plus $7200 down). Total lease cost, $14.4K.
A second dealer provided the same terms but $40 more per month. Not that great in either case, right?

My '13 SL was leased for 3 years at $300/month, $15K residual, & $4k down in 11/2013. Bought the '13 at lease expiration for $10K
(not that great). Total lease cost $14.8K (less $2500 CA rebate).

Bottom line:

1. Nissan hasn't become more motivated to sell Leafs.
2. Why risk the uncertainty of the unknown 2018 battery degradation with increased range but limited successive QCing,
which implies increased thermal problems over my '13.
3. The reliability on the '13 is basically known (4.5 years - zero problems) versus a new model Leaf.
4. Presently, worst case required number of QCs (~ 10-15 minutes) per trip is one. Really indifferent to having
the 2018 Leaf eliminate that single QC.
5. The 2018 exterior design is more appealing to most, but personally I couldn't care less.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F, min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8901
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Thu May 17, 2018 11:18 pm

The sales person quoted it using my '13 SL (-2 bars, 63K) as a trade-in. The residual used was $15K, no down, 3 yr lease,
$200/month tax and license. Without the trade-in, $400/month (or basically $200/month plus $7200 down). Total lease cost, $14.4K.
A second dealer provided the same terms but $40 more per month. Not that great in either case, right?


You could look at it this way: it would be hard to sell your leaf for $7200. If you don't mind the risk, the deal with the trade doesn't look so bad.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Jerryr
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 8:18 am
Delivery Date: 14 May 2018
Leaf Number: 307113

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Fri May 18, 2018 7:52 am

I just purchased my new 2018 Leaf rather than leasing it. The math worked out better for me since I can reduce my Federal tax liability by $7,500, which I also did when I bought my 2015. Leasing credit was only $2400.

Between negotiated dealer discount and NMAC finance incentive it reduced the Price by about $5000. So when you add the $7500 tax credit the net cost is about $24,300 for a SV with a MSRP of $36,800. Of course there’s sales tax that must be added but the trade in of my ‘15 Leaf SL w/premium pkg for $13,000 reduced the taxable value by that amount.

I’ll pay the NMAC 5.9% loan off inext week as soon as NMAC issues a loan number, that way I don’t get hit with interest.

If you have cash to pay the loan off and have higher tax liability to take advantage of the $7,500 tax credit I think buying makes sense. If not then leasing may be better.

PLUS I love the extra range.

Image

tranquilgarden
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 10:12 am
Delivery Date: 19 Aug 2018
Contact: Website

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Fri May 25, 2018 10:15 am

Interesting topic. When I asked for quotes on leasing vs. financing, both were higher per month than what I can calculate on Nissan's website, even when I select the "include all taxes" checkbox. Can I just bring in a printout of the website quote and say: please match this? We have a three-month wait until the Leaf we put a down payment on comes in, so lots of time to look into this further.

Also why is it that in the States lease prices are half of what they are in Canada? I'm looking at over $600/month for a 3 year lease with at least a $6000 downpayment.
2018 Nissan Leaf SV, Deep Blue Pearl - on order
2018 Tesla Model S 75D, Deep Blue Metallic, Sunroof, 19" Silver Wheels, Cream Premium Interior, AP, PUP - on the wish list

RonDawg
Posts: 2802
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Fri May 25, 2018 11:45 am

tranquilgarden wrote:Also why is it that in the States lease prices are half of what they are in Canada? I'm looking at over $600/month for a 3 year lease with at least a $6000 downpayment.


Because with rare exceptions, everything is more expensive in Canada than the US. (Insert "How else are you going to pay for free healthcare" comment.)

Another reason is that manufacturers can roll the Federal Tax Credit into the the price of a lease if they wish to do so; unfortunately it appears Nissan is not giving the full $7500 credit that it used to. California's ZEV mandates also encourage manufacturers to subsidize leases on EV's to encourage more sales; my Leaf ended up at a CarMax for $7k less than the listed residual.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8901
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Fri May 25, 2018 12:12 pm

When I asked for quotes on leasing vs. financing, both were higher per month than what I can calculate on Nissan's website, even when I select the "include all taxes" checkbox. Can I just bring in a printout of the website quote and say: please match this?


Yes, although they should know the advertised lease rates. Just tell them you want the Nissan national offer rates (assuming the rates apply in Canada.) Remember, though, that Nissan applies varying amounts of the US tax credit to the lease - from only about $3k for an SV, to the full credit (last time I checked) for an S.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

techiefan
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 2:22 am
Delivery Date: 27 May 2018
Leaf Number: 304600

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Sun May 27, 2018 5:53 am

My experience a few days ago 5/27/18 in Somerset NJ

I had a VPP cert from work but my local dealer had a lower advertised price on their website from the VPP price so I didn't bring that into the deal until later. The Leaf SL MSRP was $38510 and they showed $34,659 but that applies all discounts available which is useless unless you have graduated in the last 3 years or in 6 months and are also the Military or former. I am not so they would not apply the 2K in rebates from that. So that brings the advertised price up to $36,659, so back and forth I went which I wanted to avoid with the VPP but the VPP price was $35,793.00 and figured I could get less since they advertised less. I was able to work $35,000 all said and done (This included doc fees $499 / reg $360, no sales tax in NJ). SL Leaf cost $34141+ $499 + $360 etc. Looking around and reading hear I think I got a decent deal but it's near impossible to really know how good aside from comparing to others who just purchased.

The bug issue I came across was that they would not offer the 0% Nissan financing with all the discounts and rebates. They offered the 5.9% rate which I balked at and basically was going to walk as it was a deal breaker. I actually think I wore them down but that is wishful thinking as they are skilled craftsmen with only maximum profit in mind in my opinion.

I probably should have looked at the leasing options but in the past I was burnt by leasing and shy away from it. As I am reading here the downside currently is one will not get the full federal rebate. So I am guessing that leasing offers might not work in ones favor for some folks in the long run but it's nice to know you can just turn it in at the end. I personally hate having to also think about annual milage allowance too. I have come to terms that buying a Leaf is a losing proposition quicker than other traditional cars but hey I love technology and EV so I am looking at it a different way.

I welcome myself to LEAF living

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8901
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Sun May 27, 2018 1:19 pm

I hope that you have at least $5000 in tax liability.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
Posts: 1780
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 5:32 pm

Upon returning today to the same Nissan dealer I spoke with about two weeks ago, i.e. leasing a '18 SV, to QC my Leaf, I discovered basically
the same 26 '18 Leafs in their inventory. Compound this with Nissan's recent plan to reduce production by 20%, the outlook for near term
Leaf sales may be problematic.

Based on the above, one might conclude that Leaf sales growth has stagnated for a number of reasons compared to the previous two
Leaf models (24/30 kWh):

1. Nissan has basically "milked" all of the potential sales growth from the early adopter BEV market.
2. Very low resale values for used Leaf's reflects badly on future buying decisions.
3. The media's exposure of the Leaf's problematic battery degradation has soured new buyer interest.
4. Noncompetitive Leaf pricing versus other potential vehicles, e.g. the Prius PHEV, has resulted in consumers finding other vehicles more
competitive based on TCO.
5. The Tesla M3 at a potential price of $35K, i.e. although not available in 2018 as per Tesla marketing, with many more appealing features,
e.g. range, not available in a Leaf, is considered a better choice. This is what I discussed previously as a major threat to the near term
future sales of the Bolt & Leaf, even though a $35K M3 may not be "real" ever.

The only one of the five that has any potential in the near term of boosting short term Leaf sales is number four. Nissan would, as a minimum,
need to reduce all Leaf prices about $7500 before any rebates/incentives. Without some aggressive Leaf sales effort, 2018 may be a dismal
sales year for the Leaf. We'll have a better idea on Friday when InsideEVs' report is available.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F, min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

SageBrush
Posts: 2489
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Shopping for A 2018 Leaf

Wed May 30, 2018 7:54 pm

lorenfb wrote:Upon returning today to the same Nissan dealer I spoke with about two weeks ago, i.e. leasing a '18 SV, to QC my Leaf, I discovered basically
the same 26 '18 Leafs in their inventory. Compound this with Nissan's recent plan to reduce production by 20%, the outlook for near term
Leaf sales may be problematic.

Based on the above, one might conclude that Leaf sales growth has stagnated for a number of reasons compared to the previous two
Leaf models (24/30 kWh):

1. Nissan has basically "milked" all of the potential sales growth from the early adopter BEV market.
2. Very low resale values for used Leaf's reflects badly on future buying decisions.
3. The media's exposure of the Leaf's problematic battery degradation has soured new buyer interest.
4. Noncompetitive Leaf pricing versus other potential vehicles, e.g. the Prius PHEV, has resulted in consumers finding other vehicles more
competitive based on TCO.
5. The Tesla M3 at a potential price of $35K, i.e. although not available in 2018 as per Tesla marketing, with many more appealing features,
e.g. range, not available in a Leaf, is considered a better choice. This is what I discussed previously as a major threat to the near term
future sales of the Bolt & Leaf, even though a $35K M3 may not be "real" ever.

The only one of the five that has any potential in the near term of boosting short term Leaf sales is number four. Nissan would, as a minimum,
need to reduce all Leaf prices about $7500 before any rebates/incentives. Without some aggressive Leaf sales effort, 2018 may be a dismal
sales year for the Leaf. We'll have a better idea on Friday when InsideEVs' report is available.

Yep.

Folks around here did not believe me a year ago. Reality is setting in.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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