awhile
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 21 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 300706
Location: San Diego

Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:27 pm

Looking to buy a used 2016 Leaf SV.

I would like to know if there is anything glaringly bad in the LeafSpy data, or what more I should look at. I've worked with LeafSpy on several other Leaf's I've considered purchasing.

FYI, I read through the complete topic postings for "2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses" so I've invested some time in this forum and know that the community is not unanimous on the quality (degradation speed) of the 30 kWh battery (compared to 24 kWh 2015 lizard version).

Here is info on the vehicle:

2016 Leaf SV
manufactured late 2015
purchased summer 2016 => Battery degradation warranty expires 8 years from then.
purchased/used in Southern California
lease vehicle
50k miles
10 bars on dashboard battery display

It's being sold at a non-Nissan dealership and I don't know if it's gotten the firmware update (June 2018). It looks like it was last owned prior to June 2018. However, I do have a screenshot of vehicle's dashboard that showed 9 bars (not the current 10), and mileage showed 1000 miles less on speedometer than is current. I found this screenshot on website, so I don't know how long ago it was taken. Perhaps vehicle did get firmware update since it shows more bars now (10 vs 9) at greater mileage (+ 1000 miles).

LeafSpy data after doing 5 mile test drive loop which included 70 mph on highway:
(From DropBox .csv file)
SOC: 387112
AHr: 622012
Pack Volts: 352.7
CP mV Diff: 37
Pack T1 F: 69.1
Hx: 51.16
QC: 43
L1/L2: 1258
SOH: 78.26
HVoltt: 352.7
HVolt2: 352.7

(From screenshot)
30 kWh battery, 2016
"Battery Cells" screen says "33 mv".

Calculations:

Battery capacity equals AHr * Volts / 1000 = 62.2 * 352 / 1000 = 21.9 kWh
Thus range at 4 mile / kWh => 4 * 21.9 = 87 mile range
Thus range at 3 mile / kWh => 3 * 21.9 = 66 mile range

My needs:
I rarely need to do more than 50 mile round trip so the range should satisfy my needs.
Last edited by awhile on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 7/2016.

cwerdna
Posts: 8282
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:49 pm

awhile wrote:2016 Leaf SV
manufactured late 2015
purchased summer 2016 => Battery degradation warranty expires 8 years from then.
purchased/used in Southern California
lease vehicle
50k miles
10 bars on dashboard battery display

It's being sold at a non-Nissan dealership and I don't know if it's gotten the firmware update (June 2018). It looks like it was last owned prior to June 2018. However, I do have a screenshot of vehicle's dashboard that showed 9 bars (not the current 10), and mileage showed 1000 miles less on speedometer than is current. I found this screenshot on website, so I don't know how long ago it was taken. Perhaps vehicle did get firmware update since it shows more bars now (10 vs 9) at greater mileage (+ 1000 miles).

...
Hx: 51.16
...
SOH: 72.86

Make sure you're looking at the right bars. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wiki ... city-loss/ shows a fully charged 3 capacity bar loser.

With stats like that, I suspect it does not have the 30 kWh firmware update. That's pretty high mileage for such a new vehicle. I guess they had a really high mileage lease or paid a lot for extra miles.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

awhile
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 21 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 300706
Location: San Diego

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:06 pm

Thanks.

Make sure you're looking at the right bars.


This is cropped pic of battery bars from website:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10sc-gC ... q5ltG3PrZ/

I don't have picture from when I looked at it in person. Perhaps I counted wrong. Note to self: take a picture when you're there.
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 7/2016.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9582
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:49 pm

Looks like 9 bars to me, too. Here's your problem: when it drops to 8 bars, Nissan will want to do the update before anything else. At that point you will likely get two, maybe even three or four bars back, and the warranty doesn't give you a new battery. Then the car will either be fine, degrading "normally" whatever that means for those packs, and you will likely not get a new pack. OR, it will keep rapidly degrading and you will maybe get a new pack in a few years. Maybe.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

awhile
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 21 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 300706
Location: San Diego

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:01 pm

I did a calculation that I learned in another thread:

Battery capacity equals AHr * Volts / 1000 = 62.2 * 352 / 1000 = 21.9 kWh

Question:
I don't understand why the Voltage numbers I'm seeing in LeafSpy for this 30 kWh battery are different and lower than what I've seen in other 30 kWh and 24 kWh batteries.

E.g.,
2017 Leaf S (30 kWh):
AHr: 750770
Pack Volts: 392.16

2016 Leaf S (24 kWh)
AHr: 526918
Pack Volts: 382.94


Is the measurement of 352 expected for a 30 kWh battery?
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 7/2016.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9582
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:43 pm

Had the pack been fully charged and equalized, to the point where all three charging lights had turned off by themselves, while the car was still plugged in? It could be as simple as a 100% indicated charge that was lower than a full charge.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

awhile
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 21 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 300706
Location: San Diego

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:30 am

when it drops to 8 bars, Nissan will want to do the update before anything else. At that point you will likely get two, maybe even three or four bars back, and the warranty doesn't give you a new battery.


I could not find info on how to get Nissan to do the update before 8 bars. Is there a thread that talks about this? Do you just bring the car in and tell them to do it?

For example:
http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/exclusi ... ttery-fix/
This service campaign is open to all 2016 and 2017 LEAFs regardless of mileage or if they have had their battery previously replaced. Owners should contact their local dealer to schedule the update.
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 7/2016.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9582
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:13 pm

AFAIK they will do the update whenever you can schedule an appointment with a Leaf-certified dealership.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Dooglas
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:36 pm

awhile wrote:I could not find info on how to get Nissan to do the update before 8 bars. Is there a thread that talks about this? Do you just bring the car in and tell them to do it?
For example:
http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/exclusi ... ttery-fix/

You didn't read the Nissan service campaign statement in the link you attached, did you? It says nothing about after 8 bars for the software update. It just says make an appointment and bring the car in to your dealer.
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

goldbrick
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Looking to buy 2016 SV - LeafSpy data - battery degradation

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:49 am

Or just call up your local Nissan dealer with the VIN handy. I would assume they could look up the VIN in their system and see if the update has been done or not. If not, just ask for an appointment to get it done. It should be free.

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