New PG&E EV rate schedule

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matth

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
82
Location
Berkeley, CA
As a participant in the last round of PG&E's EV rate rulemaking, I got a notice today that they are implementing their new EV rate. As I recall, they agreed to make that rate mandatory only for new entrants, and allowed everyone on E-1A and E-1B to stay on those rates for the moment (my big gripe with the new EV rate is that it removes tiers, and therefore removes incentives for conservation). I don't see anything in the current announcement that make it clear that anyone can stay on E-1.

Does anyone see that, one way or the another, in the announcement?
 
matth said:
As a participant in the last round of PG&E's EV rate rulemaking, I got a notice today that they are implementing their new EV rate. As I recall, they agreed to make that rate mandatory only for new entrants, and allowed everyone on E-1A and E-1B to stay on those rates for the moment (my big gripe with the new EV rate is that it removes tiers, and therefore removes incentives for conservation). I don't see anything in the current announcement that make it clear that anyone can stay on E-1.

Does anyone see that, one way or the another, in the announcement?

I think you mean "E-9A and E-9B." The CPUC order made it clear that those currently on either E-9 rate can stay on it until it completes its next general rate review, which should be sometime next year.

If you don't have a PV system, it's probably a no-brainer to stay on E-9. However, if you do have solar, it isn't so clear, because the newly instituted winter peak period will generate credits. I did a quick comparison, using my bills for the past year, and I would come out about $20 ahead on the EV-A rate. Has anyone else with a solar installation run a comparison?
 
oakwcj said:
I did a quick comparison, using my bills for the past year, and I would come out about $20 ahead on the EV-A rate. Has anyone else with a solar installation run a comparison?
I only recently got solar, in fact less than a month, but I have done some rough estimates comparing E9A and EVA with and without solar as I have been on E9A for years. For me E9A was much better without solar as I typically only went into the third tier each month. However now that I have solar EVA may actually turn out to be better for me just like you. The nice part is now that I have a smartmeter and solar installed I will have enough data to make an informed decision before I have to make a rate change.
 
I should add that there was a time when E9A or E9B rate was mandatory for someone to charge a vehicle at home. That requirement was removed some time ago, however one cannot change their rate more than once every 12 months.
 
matth said:
I don't see anything in the current announcement that make it clear that anyone can stay on E-1.

Does anyone see that, one way or the another, in the announcement?
Well it still says one can stay on the old rate according to the following PG&E page http://www.pge.com/myhome/environment/whatyoucando/electricdrivevehicles/rateoptions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When Schedule EV becomes available, customers taking service on either option of the E-9 schedule may choose to stay on that rate schedule, or move to the new EV rate schedule. If no choice is made, they will remain on the E-9 rate until at least the end of 2014*, at which point they will transition to the new EV rate.
 
Thanks. So PG&E has documented that we can stay on E9-A. (yes, I had the moniker wrong)

Spies said:
matth said:
I don't see anything in the current announcement that make it clear that anyone can stay on E-1.

Does anyone see that, one way or the another, in the announcement?
Well it still says one can stay on the old rate according to the following PG&E page http://www.pge.com/myhome/environment/whatyoucando/electricdrivevehicles/rateoptions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When Schedule EV becomes available, customers taking service on either option of the E-9 schedule may choose to stay on that rate schedule, or move to the new EV rate schedule. If no choice is made, they will remain on the E-9 rate until at least the end of 2014*, at which point they will transition to the new EV rate.

I think PG&E has missed a process point as to what happens at the end of 2014. They don't have approval from the PUC to force everybody onto EV. For me, and probably for lots of others, EV may be so disadvantageous that I will move back to E-1, though I have not yet run the #s. It basically moves me from off peak at ~$0.04 and peak of ~$0.30 to off peak of ~$.10 and peak of ~$.37, if I remember their #s correctly. E-1 would put me at closer to an average of $0.14.

This is a little OT, but do you all find it surprising that PG&E's non generation costs/KWH are higher than some utilities total costs/KWH?!
 
Spies said:
oakwcj said:
I did a quick comparison, using my bills for the past year, and I would come out about $20 ahead on the EV-A rate. Has anyone else with a solar installation run a comparison?
I only recently got solar, in fact less than a month, but I have done some rough estimates comparing E9A and EVA with and without solar as I have been on E9A for years. For me E9A was much better without solar as I typically only went into the third tier each month. However now that I have solar EVA may actually turn out to be better for me just like you. The nice part is now that I have a smartmeter and solar installed I will have enough data to make an informed decision before I have to make a rate change.

Unfortunately, PG&E took my smartmeter away when I had solar installed, and neither PG&E nor its contractor, Wellington Energy, will give me as much as an estimate of when they will put in a new smartmeter. This makes it more difficult to figure out the net difference between E9-A and EV-A.
 
oakwcj said:
Unfortunately, PG&E took my smartmeter away when I had solar installed, and neither PG&E nor its contractor, Wellington Energy, will give me as much as an estimate of when they will put in a new smartmeter. This makes it more difficult to figure out the net difference between E9-A and EV-A.

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=11857&start=10#p274035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for my experience in Berkeley. Perhaps Oakland is different?

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
oakwcj said:
Unfortunately, PG&E took my smartmeter away when I had solar installed, and neither PG&E nor its contractor, Wellington Energy, will give me as much as an estimate of when they will put in a new smartmeter. This makes it more difficult to figure out the net difference between E9-A and EV-A.

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=11857&start=10#p274035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for my experience in Berkeley. Perhaps Oakland is different?

Cheers, Wayne

They are deploying by territory. I called PG&E after I read your post. They passed the buck to Wellington. Wellington told me it was entirely up to PG&E. Par for the course. I didn't bother calling PG&E back.
 
I am part of the email too. I'm glad I'll be staying on E-9a until the end of 2014 because the current EV schedule may be worse than me going back to E-1
 
johnqh said:
I didn't get any email from PGE. Can someone post the detailed rates?

E-9 is at:

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf

EV-A rates will be:

Summer -- Peak $.37615; Partial Peak $.20558; Off-Peak $.09790

Winter -- Peak $.26916; Partial Peak $.16425; Off-Peak $.10031

Peak hours: 2-9 P.M. M-F; 3-7 P.M. S-S
Partial Peak: 7 A.M.-2 P.M. and 9-11 P.M. M-F.
 
johnqh said:
I guess solar panel homes should stick to E9A. The tier 1 off-peak is essentially free.

John--

I can't opine as to which rate schedule is better presently. However, it's very clear that EV- is the exclusive direction that PG&E wants to go post 2014, and will do so unless we strongly push back. There are no tiers in EV-.

Based on the rate case for E-1, I actually think PG&E would like to get rid of tiers overall, if they could. If they can't, they would like to make the tiering system meaningless.
 
matth said:
johnqh said:
I guess solar panel homes should stick to E9A. The tier 1 off-peak is essentially free.

John--

I can't opine as to which rate schedule is better presently. However, it's very clear that EV- is the exclusive direction that PG&E wants to go post 2014, and will do so unless we strongly push back. There are no tiers in EV-.

Based on the rate case for E-1, I actually think PG&E would like to get rid of tiers overall, if they could. If they can't, they would like to make the tiering system meaningless.

What PG&E really wants is demand pricing, which they call "time-variant" pricing. Prices would fluctuate on a daily -- or hourly -- basis depending on supply and demand. The Division of Ratepayer Advocates published a white paper on this subject a couple of years ago:

http://dra.ca.gov/general.aspx?id=239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While it might make sense for large businesses, it would be a nightmare for residential customers.

The CPUC has said that it will revisit the entire issue of EV rates as part of its 2014 General Rate Case.
 
PG&E really sticks it to residential rate payers, with or without tiers. Take Silicon Valley Power or SMUD as examples. Silicon Valley power doesn't have (need!) an EV rate as they charge residential customers about 10c/kWH all day long. SMUD does have an EV rate, but their basic rate is a touch higher than SVP until you get over 700 kWH/month.

PG&E is lowering commercial rates (presumably, businesses can opt to generate themselves) and raising residential rates (which in the higher tiers are some of the highest in the country).

This is NOT an example of a well regulated monopoly.

If PG&E had to weather market forces, you could expect your electric bills to be quite similar to Silicon Valley power (or Alameda power).

Stop rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and solve the actual problem.

PG&E's documented cost to acquire a kWH 3c.
 
Moin, moin

EricBayArea said:
I'm glad I'll be staying on E-9a until the end of 2014 because the current EV schedule may be worse than me going back to E-1

Now that I have more than a year on E9-A I can offer these numbers directly from the PGE website below*:

E9-A cost per year 450$
E6-smart cost per year 580$
E6 cost per year 640$
E1-smart cost per year 670$
E1 cost per year 730$
EV-A cost per year 810$

E9-A is real, the others are estimated cost for the same use pattern.

The first and last ones are the two rates that are exclusive to owners of electric cars. EV-A is the one that is available going forward and was advertised as a valid alternative to me currently on E9-A, I don't think so!

*This page will only work if you are logged in as a PGE customer:
https://pge.opower.com/ei/app/myRates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best regards

Jens
 
planet4ever said:
...they still haven't gotten around to upgrading my old GE KV2 meter to a SmartMeter.
I finally got mine by calling PG&E and asking for it. For some reason they had me on an opt-out list, I have no idea why. The smartmeter is a little cheaper too, no meter-reader monthly charge to pay.
 
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