User avatar
LeafPowerIsIxE
Forum Supporter
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:46 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0590
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: SDG&E EV-TOU-5

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:34 pm

davewill wrote:
LeafPowerIsIxE wrote:Where did you find this simulator?

Log into https://myaccount.sdge.com then choose "Compare Pricing Plans".


Thanks - It doesn't show for my account currently because my plan change (one year period) ends in September. I'll review at that time. So far, the DR-SES has worked out because we pushed all of our heavy power usage (Leaf-Pool-Well-Irrigation-Dishwasher) to after midnight. Not sure how that will play in Aug-Sep-Oct when the A/C requirements become more intense. Switching the on-peak period to 4p-9p was a dirty trick by SDGE - a direct attack on the solar customers. This was implemented 1-month after I switched plans. No mention of it by the rep that convinced me to move off my grandfathered tier pricing last October.

User avatar
Randy
Moderator
Posts: 2090
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:29 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0191
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: SDG&E EV-TOU-5

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:07 pm

LeafPower,
I work for SDG&E and am an EV driver and enthusiast.

I think you are misunderstanding the whole TOU period situation if you think it was a dirty trick...

Before solar generation was adopted by a lot of customers, some TOU rates had peak periods of 11am to 6pm and some of the EV rates had peak periods of noon to 6pm. I used to work in our control center and the summer peak was around 3pm in the afternoon. That's when wholesale energy prices were highest.

The purpose of this higher peak retail TOU price signal is mainly felt in the summer and it has always been to encourage people to move discretionary load from that time period to a cheaper off-peak or super off-peak time. The reason is because energy is always more expensive in the peak time, and when more energy is used in the peak period, the utility has to spend more to serve that load.

What you probably don't realize is that most medium and larger sized businesses have historically been on these TOU rates as well, many more business customers than residential customers.

Another thing you probably don't realize (I'm guessing from your comment) is that the utility doesn't make money from selling energy (sales have been de-coupled from profits). Energy commodity is now a pass-through, and has been for several years in California. The utility makes money from constructing capital projects as they are necessary on the grid, with the associated financing that it takes to get a project built.

What has happened over the past few years is that hundreds of MW of solar PV systems have been installed in San Diego, and their production peaks after lunch. This has pushed the peak time to later in the day (specifically 4-9 pm when they aren't generating - but the load is just as high as it's ever been). The purpose of the peak time charge is to encourage customers to shift their loads, and not to benefit or punish certain types of customers. It will (and should) always follow what the actual peak time is. that may change down the road to a different time as system conditions change.

Solar customers want higher prices in the daytime because they get higher credits for their generation. Business customers don't want higher prices during the afternoon period because it costs them more to run their business. The utility doesn't benefit, it's goal is to set the TOU periods to reflect reality and send the proper pricing signals.

The prices need to reflect reality in the summer season, and the new reality is that the peak is later in the day. So that's the time that the pricing signals are meant for....

It's as simple as that. No dastardly plan at work. There is actually more of a surplus of energy in the middle of the day now than there used to be. The TOU periods have to change to reflect that....

User avatar
LeafPowerIsIxE
Forum Supporter
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:46 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0590
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: SDG&E EV-TOU-5

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:53 pm

Randy wrote:LeafPower,
I work for SDG&E and am an EV driver and enthusiast.

I think you are misunderstanding the whole TOU period situation if you think it was a dirty trick...

Before solar generation was adopted by a lot of customers, some TOU rates had peak periods of 11am to 6pm and some of the EV rates had peak periods of noon to 6pm. I used to work in our control center and the summer peak was around 3pm in the afternoon. That's when wholesale energy prices were highest.

The purpose of this higher peak retail TOU price signal is mainly felt in the summer and it has always been to encourage people to move discretionary load from that time period to a cheaper off-peak or super off-peak time. The reason is because energy is always more expensive in the peak time, and when more energy is used in the peak period, the utility has to spend more to serve that load.

What you probably don't realize is that most medium and larger sized businesses have historically been on these TOU rates as well, many more business customers than residential customers.

Another thing you probably don't realize (I'm guessing from your comment) is that the utility doesn't make money from selling energy (sales have been de-coupled from profits). Energy commodity is now a pass-through, and has been for several years in California. The utility makes money from constructing capital projects as they are necessary on the grid, with the associated financing that it takes to get a project built.

What has happened over the past few years is that hundreds of MW of solar PV systems have been installed in San Diego, and their production peaks after lunch. This has pushed the peak time to later in the day (specifically 4-9 pm when they aren't generating - but the load is just as high as it's ever been). The purpose of the peak time charge is to encourage customers to shift their loads, and not to benefit or punish certain types of customers. It will (and should) always follow what the actual peak time is. that may change down the road to a different time as system conditions change.

Solar customers want higher prices in the daytime because they get higher credits for their generation. Business customers don't want higher prices during the afternoon period because it costs them more to run their business. The utility doesn't benefit, it's goal is to set the TOU periods to reflect reality and send the proper pricing signals.

The prices need to reflect reality in the summer season, and the new reality is that the peak is later in the day. So that's the time that the pricing signals are meant for....

It's as simple as that. No dastardly plan at work. There is actually more of a surplus of energy in the middle of the day now than there used to be. The TOU periods have to change to reflect that....


Thank you for your very detailed education on this topic. I appreciate it. I have always perceived SDGE as an enemy of solar customers, as antithetical as that seems. When I first had my system installed, I had a lot of interaction with the SDGE reps. One of them made a comment (~May-2008) that solar customers just represent "the rich getting richer" and not "paying my fair share". I was stunned. Not sure about the atmosphere today.

When I was "encouraged" by the SDGE rep last year to make the change to DR-SES, On-Peak was defined as 12p-6p. This maximized my production during the highest rate period. The very next billing period, SDGE sent me a notice changing the On-Peak period to 4p-9p. I called to complain, but of course was told it was too late - I was locked in for 1-year. I have subsequently found work-arounds, as you detailed above, to better fit into the DR-SES profile. I can see a day coming where SDGE moves on-peak periods to 6p-11p. Or worse.

I will review the newly proposed options in September. It's possible I am on the best available plan. I was told I could also revert back to tier-based pricing. I'm not sure that makes sense anymore based on our current energy profile. The myriad and complexity of the energy plan offerings are dizzying. Mistakes in selection can be punishing.

Thanks, again.

Cocitagilbert1
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:00 pm
Delivery Date: 06 May 2018

Re: SDG&E EV-TOU-5

Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:10 pm

Hi I am new to this EV program, since I bought mine just a few months ago. My husband had a Tesla and we have been on the EV-TOU-2 but now that I have a Leaf we have 2 EV cars. Our SDGE bill was outrageous! I just did the pricing and it shows this new EV-TOU-5 would save me about $1000. How accurate is their pricing? Also my 93 year old grandmother just moved in with me an we will be getting the medical based pricing. Should I switch to the EV-TOU-5 or just go ahead with the medical based pricing? Which gives a bigger savings? We charge our cars from 1am to 5 am and we run our pool pump at night from 1-8am but we still had a $1,100 electric bill for the month of June. Any suggestions? Thanks!

User avatar
davewill
Posts: 4963
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: SDG&E EV-TOU-5

Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:01 pm

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be accurate, but it is based on your prior usage, so if your future usage is different... Super off peak starts at midnight, so you should slide the pool pump back an hour to get a little more savings. You could also cut it back to only midnight to 6am on the weekdays, then add some extra hours on the seems when SOP runs until 2pm. The only other thing to do is ashift other usage to cheaper times or install solar.

You'd have to try and analyse your old bills vs the medical plans to figure out which is cheaper. There no cut and dried answer to which plan is better short of doing the math.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

philip
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:18 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Aug 2015
Leaf Number: 327341
Location: El Cajon, CA

Re: SDG&E EV-TOU-5

Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:09 am

Cocitagilbert1 wrote:.. but we still had a $1,100 electric bill for the month of June


You didn't give us a lot of data to go on (size of home and its location), miles driven, AC usage, other heavy electric consumers.

It sounds like you don't have PV, so switching to TOU-5 from TOU-2 is easy - TOU-5 will be cheaper. But with MB rates, you will have to analyze your usage and your ability (and willingness) to shift loads. Based on your $1100 bill, you are probably using around 3200 kWh/month - a very high usage for San Diego area. That would likely put you over 400% baseline on normal DR rates. It will put you right around 400% on MB DR rates. If you do no other load shifting other than EV charging and the pool pump (hopefully variable speed), I still think you will SLIGHTLY come out ahead on TOU-5 MB rates. Assuming around 1000 kWh super off peak/month.

Switching rates won't magically cause your bill to drop from $1100 to $200/mo - the other plans may drop you to $900 - if you really want to reduce your bill, you are going to need to take control of your usage and find out where you can save. The EVs are probably not contributing to as much as your bill as you may think (2000 miles a month at 3.7 miles/kWh would only cost you $124) You need to look at other consumers: AC use, old refrigerator (or multiple refrigerator/freezers), incandescent bulbs, cable/satellite DVRs on 24hrs/day, computers on 24hrs/day, single speed pool pump, pool heat pump and the basics - leaving lights on, TV on all the time, etc. Hopefully you have gas available and aren't heating water with electricity.

For reference our June bill without solar would have been $250 - only one EV at 1000 miles/month and a pool, 2900 sq ft, 1980s construction in east county. June was a cooler month though, our July bill would be $385 where we ran the AC a lot more. We load shift what we can to super off peak - pool pump/SWG, dishwasher, EV charging and we are well aware that when we turn on a light switch we are making a purchasing decision. Our annual usage is 10,500 kWh and it didn't take much effort - and I estimate I can use over 50% of that on super off peak when I switch to TOU-5.

Also, don't knee jerk into getting PV, look to get your usage under control first (then if you desire to have PV which is not as beneficial as it once was, the system can be a lot smaller).
2015 SV
Old 11/11/15: 2012SL, SOH76% 49.97AHr 35,644mi vin 26790
LEAF press kits

montreid
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:07 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Sep 2017

Re: SDG&E EV-TOU-5

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:53 am

@Randy - Thank you for reminding folk that SDGE isn't ALL bad. Sure, backroom deals like San Onofre leave ratepayers once-bitten, but solar and EV rates have been relatively good since regulated at State level.

As Randy pointed out, the 'duck-bill' phenomena has occurred with the large increase of solar capacity across California. True grid demand has been shifted to afternoons when everyone comes home, plug in their EV to CHARGE, turn on AC, cook, wash their clothes, and watch TV....just as the sun disappears and pulls thousands of PV arrays off the grid. TOU simply reflects the demand which squarely falls 4p-9p. Even more telling-- OhmConnect power alerts for savings have largely fallen between 6p-9p this past year.

If SDGE really wanted to put the screws to PV - TOU wound be 6p-9p.

We've been on TOU-2 since for years since we are NEM 1.0 / PV 3.8kwh / EV users with activation of PV 8/2014 and EV charging about 300kw per month We're Grandfatherred into old TOU schedules 12p-6p until next year.

Kicker -- we installed Powerwall 2.0 in April with SGIP program. Easy to time shift the PV energy to support TOU peak times in the evening. :)

We just found out about the TOU-5 plan last night. I switched.

@ Randy - WISHLIST to SDGE- Develop EV to V2H support - don't know why SGIP didn't have a subsegment to do this.

Return to “Utilities”