PG&E Rates w/ solar & ev

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Fabio

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
278
I've just installed a 4.3kW Solar Panel system and will (Nissan willing) get a LEAF next moth, so I have 2 applications pending w/ PG&E (solar and EV).
I have been contacted by a PG&E guy who said that I cannot use the E9 w/ solar, since they will not credit me back the extra production.
The only rate I can use (and get money back for extra production) is E6.

Anyone else out there who can shed some light on this? I thought that PGE would credit back for the extra production regardless on the rate....

any help is appreciated.
 
Fabio said:
I have been contacted by a PG&E guy who said that I cannot use the E9 w/ solar, since they will not credit me back the extra production.
The only rate I can use (and get money back for extra production) is E6.
I don't believe this is correct unless you are talking about the E9B rate which is when your electric vehicle is charged on a separate meter from the home and solar system unlike the E9A rate when everything is on one meter. Was this PG&E guy from the Clean Air Vehicle department? Perhaps a call to the Clean Air Vehicle hotline at (800) 684-4648 would shed some light.

In fact I plan to stay on the E9A rate when I eventually get solar and no one has said that would be problem for net metering.
 
I believe I am on E9A with net metering (kV2cs net meter). PG&E told me I could net meter with E9A. A few other guys on this thread are trying to choose between E6 and E9A:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=676
 
DeaneG said:
I believe I am on E9A with net metering (kV2cs net meter). PG&E told me I could net meter with E9A. A few other guys on this thread are trying to choose between E6 and E9A:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=676

I also have a net meter for E9A with my solar.
 
So it appears (and why I am not surprised...) that the PGE guy did not know what he was talking about...

When you have a net meter and produce more than you use, what rate does PGE use to credit you back?

Ready2plugin said:
DeaneG said:
I believe I am on E9A with net metering (kV2cs net meter). PG&E told me I could net meter with E9A. A few other guys on this thread are trying to choose between E6 and E9A:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=676

I also have a net meter for E9A with my solar.
 
Fabio said:
When you have a net meter and produce more than you use, what rate does PGE use to credit you back?
They pay the same rate you would pay if you were buying power from them at the same time! Apparently we are very fortunate in that. From what they are saying down south, generation costs and distribution costs are handled separately, and I think I read that they charge you distribution costs for the electricity you sell them. PG&E does all of its calculations using bundled rates, so in effect they even pay you for the distribution costs. That makes sense to me - after all, the electricity you generate is really being used by your neighbors, so it reduces the amount PG&E has to distribute through its network.

The best part of it is that they pay you peak rates (weekdays) for much of the electricity you generate, and then you can buy it back from them at night at off-peak rates to charge your LEAF. So, for example, you might sell them 20 kWh at $0.30/kWh and buy it back for 0.10/kWh, meaning they would be paying you $4.00 per day to let them use your electricity for 12 hours.

Ray
 
Ray,

If you are certain about that, then the E9 rate would seem to be the way to go, since I produce much more than I use from 9 am to 4 pm (during the E9 peak) and use it during E9 off-peak.
Do you have a contact a PGE?

Fabio

planet4ever said:
Fabio said:
When you have a net meter and produce more than you use, what rate does PGE use to credit you back?
They pay the same rate you would pay if you were buying power from them at the same time! Apparently we are very fortunate in that. From what they are saying down south, generation costs and distribution costs are handled separately, and I think I read that they charge you distribution costs for the electricity you sell them. PG&E does all of its calculations using bundled rates, so in effect they even pay you for the distribution costs. That makes sense to me - after all, the electricity you generate is really being used by your neighbors, so it reduces the amount PG&E has to distribute through its network.

The best part of it is that they pay you peak rates (weekdays) for much of the electricity you generate, and then you can buy it back from them at night at off-peak rates to charge your LEAF. So, for example, you might sell them 20 kWh at $0.30/kWh and buy it back for 0.10/kWh, meaning they would be paying you $4.00 per day to let them use your electricity for 12 hours.

Ray
 
Fabio said:
Ray,

If you are certain about that, then the E9 rate would seem to be the way to go, since I produce much more than I use from 9 am to 4 pm (during the E9 peak) and use it during E9 off-peak.
Do you have a contact a PGE?

Hope it was that simple. With E9, the off-peak starts at mid-night, which is a problem for most houses. I have an E6 and after 9pm, my family is free to do anything. So we do the dishwasher, laundries, vacum, occasionally AC during summer, etc after 9pm.

Moving to E9a would be a life style change. I am going to use E6 for sometime and see it affects my billing.

Also remember, if you are power user of LEAF, then you might consume the entire Teir 1 of your off-peak just for charging your car. So for the rest of it, you will be using Tier 2 and Tier 3 of your off-peak. So you have to compare Tier 2/Tier3 of E6 and E9 also. I was seriously considering E9b, but having double thoughts because of the installation cost and other uncertainties.
 
Fabio said:
If you are certain about that, then the E9 rate would seem to be the way to go,
Oh, I'm certain, all right, at least for E6. I've been watching and analyzing my E6 bills carefully for four years. I'm sure E9 works the same way, because the E9 tariff wording is the same as E6 on that matter.

Fabio said:
... since I produce much more than I use from 9 am to 4 pm (during the E9 peak) and use it during E9 off-peak.
Actually, the E9 peak rate applies from 2 PM to 9 PM weekdays in the summer. The E6 peak rate applies from 1 PM to 7 PM weekdays in the summer. Since a typical solar array produces its maximum power around 1 PM in the summer and stops producing around 7 or 8 PM, you can sell more power at peak rate using E6 than E9.

In fact we usually start using more than we are generating around 5 or 6 in the evening (especially May to July), so having peak from 7 PM to 9 PM hurts us. The switchover comes even earlier by August, because the days are getting shorter but we're using more air conditioning. And as leaf561 pointed out, E6 goes off-peak at 9 PM, while E9 doesn't go off-peak until midnight, so that's three more hours of partial peak which also hurts us.

Fabio said:
Do you have a contact a PGE?
No, I've never spoken to them. I just trust what their official tariffs say.

Ray
 
I'm on an E9A rate for the Leaf. I'm finishing a small (1.6kw) solar project and turned the paperwork into PG&E to go to net metering. Apparently if you are already on E9 and want to stay on E9 there is a $228 "reprogramming charge". What a pain. He said that if I switch to E6 or E1 for even one month and then switch back, I don't need to pay the fee. I don't think either would be a big difference in the bill, certainly less that $228.
 
I went directly from E1 to E9A with net metering for Solar and the Leaf. There wasn't any "reprogramming" charge, they just changed my former smartmeter to a kV2cs. It's definitely net-metering, as I had negative peak-time energy consumption in May and June.

They told me that once I go on a TOU plan, I have to stay on that plan for at least one year (otherwise it would be more cost-effictive to switch in and out with the seasons).
 
This seems to be a good a place as any to ask if anyone with Solar and on E9A with NET metering has been upgraded to a SmartMeter yet?

Supposedly PG&E now has NET SmartMeters available. What I don't know is if they are available with the E9A rate. http://www.pge.com/solarupgrade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am looking to have solar installed and operational by Summer next year and it would be nice to have an E9A NET SmartMeter installed at the time. Not only would it allow for energy usage tracking I would also save the $0.21881 a day meter charge.
 
Spies said:
This seems to be a good a place as any to ask if anyone with Solar and on E9A with NET metering has been upgraded to a SmartMeter yet?

Supposedly PG&E now has NET SmartMeters available. What I don't know is if they are available with the E9A rate. http://www.pge.com/solarupgrade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am looking to have solar installed and operational by Summer next year and it would be nice to have an E9A NET SmartMeter installed at the time. Not only would it allow for energy usage tracking I would also save the $0.21881 a day meter charge.

I asked same question over a year ago and I did not get an answer yet. From my experience with PGE I would simply go back to the analog meters that are also net meters as they can run backwards and know how to count down. One fellow engineer recently did that since his self installed PV system did not use pressure treated lumber for his backyard installation. And without city permit approval, PG&E would not even look at his system so he went with the mechanical meter and is very happy. I am dismayed at the poor quality of service we get from PG&E along with an almost hostile attitude toward EV's when it comes to rate structure. They are showing some progress if they have a net capable smartmeter.
 
I would like to report that my meter was swapped out for a new SMART meter last week. And today, I am finally able to see for the first time the hourly net household electrical usage on the PG&E website.

Note: I have solar and have been on PG&E's E9A net metering since 2011.
 
I've been on E-9A with solar for almost a year. E-9A is a great rate, because summer peak rates are very high and that is when your system is producing the most kWh. You are credited for production at the retail rate. You are billed each month for the unbundled distribution costs, which comes to about $12. You also receive a NEMS [net energy metering system] statement each month. The statement gets "trued up" at the end of 12 months. If you have a credit, PG&E will not necessarily pay you anything. The most you will get is a payment at its wholesale rate for producing more than you consume. The term is NSC [net surplus compensation]. In my case, I'll have a credit, even though I will have consumed more kWh than I produced. That's because I produced so much at summer peak rates, and consumed so much at off-peak rates. The net metering system is explained quite well at:

http://www.pge.com/myhome/saveenergymoney/solarenergy/nembilling/.

PG&E is going to institute its new EV rate within the next few months. Existing E-9 customers will be grandfathered in, at least until the end of 2014. The new rate may be more advantageous than E-9A if you have solar, because there will be winter peak rate periods and the rate will be even higher. The incentives change radically when you have solar.
 
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