dallasmay
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:04 pm

Re: EVGO, why?

Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:12 am

Herm wrote:Competition is good, IF EVGO makes a go of it and profits then even better as other charging stations will prop up everywhere. I did some calculations back when it was announced and I dont see how they can make it..

EVSE and their installation are expensive now, but that will change very quickly.


It's a bet, for sure. They are betting that once people start seeing their Charger everywhere, people will be more likely to consider an electric car and will go to them for their service. Even if another competitor jumps in the fray to compete, EVgo will be able to brag that they have the largest network with the most charging stations. That's a good deal for them.

They know good and well they are not going to make money in the short term. This is a LONG term investment. They probably won't make money for ten years. But again, this is a long term investment.

shay
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:00 am
Delivery Date: 04 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3285
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: EVGO, why?

Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:01 am

dallasmay wrote:
BTW:
The lowest rate for EVgo is $49. At that price, $49/month*12 months/year * 3 years is just $1764. That's about the same as if you got the base price for the Aerovironment Home Charger from Nissan and financed it along with your Leaf. (Since my garage is so far from my circuit box, my home assessment was more like $2600, before financing it, through I know there are cheaper chargers than AV.)

To that extent, even the $90 plan isn't that bad:

($2000 for home charger installation) + (24 kWh/100 miles)*(12000 miles/year)*($0.11/kWh)*3years
= $2950
vs.
($90/month)*(3 years) + free fast charging when you need it + electrons from your home charger= $3240

So, I said before, if you financed the charger with your Leaf you will probably end up paying more for it than if you went with EVgo. And you don't get to use their network today and are left hoping someone else puts together a ppu or free charger for you some time in the future.

...or maybe, as you said, I'm just gullible. If so, please correct me. I check in this message board every few days.

It's not that quite clear cut if I understand EVGO correctly. At the end of 3 years you can either re-up for the service for whatever price it is going for or EVGO removes the charger. At least with the Aerovironment install you own the EVSE.

GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 850

Re: EVGO, why?

Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:21 am

at the rate it's taking the government in WA to get charging stations in, and if I was not able to get in on the EV project free station, it would be tempting for me to sign up for a private program that assures there are stations along the main corridors. Lately I've been wondering if L3 is ever going to happen. Right now, the only charging stations I can count on are the one in my garage and the ones at the Dealers. that said, I'm surprised how much driving I can do even without a network of charging stations, practically everything.
g
Last edited by GaslessInSeattle on Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
9.8 kW PV Solar installed 9/12, http://www.westseattlenaturalenergy.com

rainnw
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:26 am
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Seattle

Re: EVGO, why?

Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:08 pm

I am sure charging stations will be a race to the bottom in pricing, and will end up like gasoline -- you make almost nothing off of it, and your profit is actually just drawing someone into a convenient store as they have time to kill.
Ordered 11/24/2010 (November)
Delivered: 5/28/2011
Red SL-e, ECO package, cargo, splashguards
Commute: 75 miles round trip (60 miles highway, 15 side roads)
miles: 45,000 miles
Charge daily to 100%, lost 1st bar at 43k

http://www.chargesticker.com/

rainnw
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:26 am
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Seattle

Re: EVGO, why?

Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:11 pm

GaslessInSeattle wrote:at the rate it's taking the government in WA to get charging stations in, and if I was not able to get in on the EV project free station, it would be tempting for me to sign up for a private program that assures there are stations along the main corridors. Lately I've been wondering if L3 is ever going to happen. Right now, the only charging stations I can count on are the one in my garage and the ones at the Dealers. that said, I'm surprised how far much driving I can do even without a network of charging stations, practically everything.
g


I read an article today that stated that WSDOT "is on the verge" of awarding the installation contract.. however, they are expecting a public/private partnership in regards to who will host these stations (ie: burgerville, starbucks, joe's truck stop, etc), and these businesses in turn need to "bid" on providing space.

Ultimately, the lowest L3 bidder and the business who fronts the most cost will get the charging station and contract.

I am cringing at this logic, as i am sure they will just end up building a completely unusable deployment with gaps in it (like the steven's pass charging station that nobody can actually drive to).
Ordered 11/24/2010 (November)
Delivered: 5/28/2011
Red SL-e, ECO package, cargo, splashguards
Commute: 75 miles round trip (60 miles highway, 15 side roads)
miles: 45,000 miles
Charge daily to 100%, lost 1st bar at 43k

http://www.chargesticker.com/

dallasmay
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:04 pm

Re: EVGO, why?

Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:10 pm

shay wrote:It's not that quite clear cut if I understand EVGO correctly. At the end of 3 years you can either re-up for the service for whatever price it is going for or EVGO removes the charger. At least with the Aerovironment install you own the EVSE.


Here is the information I just recieved from EVgo:

"Cancelling is easy….no fees up to prior in install…so say you signed up next week and then you cancelled your LEAF…no obligation…Once you have the equipment installed it is $25 per month times the remaining number of months (36 is our standard, so $900 worst case), and you cancel whenever you want. If you fail to allow us to get the equipment back, an additional $350 comes into play.

At the end of the term, and this is still being worked through, but we envision the following:
Continue on your current plan
Request a new plan with your current charger.
Request a new plan with a new charger. Who knows what technology will be available including drive on induction charging.
Request to purchase current charger for FMV-Face Market Value.
Terminate contract and ask us to pick up charger. Understand that the installation of 240 Volt service is already yours installed.

From a removal standpoint, we would coordinate with you for our folks to pick it up. Only fee comes into play if you don’t return it (attaching the terms/conditions to explain for you)."

So take that for what you would like.

User avatar
tzzhc4
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:46 am
Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2192
Location: Texas

Re: EVGO, why?

Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:36 pm

dallasmay wrote:BTW:
The lowest rate for EVgo is $49. At that price, $49/month*12 months/year * 3 years is just $1764. That's about the same as if you got the base price for the Aerovironment Home Charger from Nissan and financed it along with your Leaf. (Since my garage is so far from my circuit box, my home assessment was more like $2600, before financing it, through I know there are cheaper chargers than AV.)

To that extent, even the $90 plan isn't that bad:

($2000 for home charger installation) + (24 kWh/100 miles)*(12000 miles/year)*($0.11/kWh)*3years
= $2950
vs.
($90/month)*(3 years) + free fast charging when you need it + electrons from your home charger= $3240


$49 a month doesn't include access to their charging network. And the Aerovironment EVSE is ludicrously over priced. 1200 for labor is insane, I had x4 20A outlets wired from by garage into my living room (triple the distance the AV would be wired) for 300 dollars (labor plus breakers, romex, outlets, faceplates etc). Get an Ingineer upgrade or some of the other EVSE or just use the trickle charger. On top of all this you don't own the EVSE after the 3 years is up.
Cayenne Red SL-e, VIN 2192. Reserved: 4/20/10. Ordered: 10/2/10. Delivered: 6/2/11. Ingineer upgraded factory EVSE

User avatar
tzzhc4
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:46 am
Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2192
Location: Texas

Re: EVGO, why?

Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:41 pm

Herm wrote:why?.. because it allows you use 70 L3 private charging stations, and no chance that the spot will be occupied by an ICE car.


I dove by the EVGO L3 charger at Walgreens in Dallas and there was an ICE car parked in front of it and the EVGO L2 in McKinney always has at least 1 ICE car parked in front of it because it is a normal spot right in front of the library. Most of the Chargepoint chargers are marked EV only all other towed.

Speak politely to ICE drivers most will move and most are interested in how your car works. If you want to pay $79 a month so you don't have to deal with people be my guest but I prefer to support open networks that don't force me into a long term contract.
Cayenne Red SL-e, VIN 2192. Reserved: 4/20/10. Ordered: 10/2/10. Delivered: 6/2/11. Ingineer upgraded factory EVSE

dallasmay
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:04 pm

Re: EVGO, why?

Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:56 pm

tzzhc4 wrote:On top of all this you don't own the EVSE after the 3 years is up.


I spoke with a representative of EVgo and he said that you could cancel at any time, and the fee for doing so was $25/month remaining on contract. And if you wanted to keep the charger they would charge you $350 dollars for it at that time. Or, if you sign up again, they will upgrade you to the latest and greatest charging stations. I don't think that's a bad deal. As I said, it's roughly the same as financing the charger.

You can do as you like, most of the time I would rather own too. (I'm buying my leaf, for example, not leasing.) But until there is another option, I'm signing up with EVgo.

User avatar
tzzhc4
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:46 am
Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2192
Location: Texas

Re: EVGO, why?

Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:06 pm

dallasmay wrote:
shay wrote:Here is the information I just recieved from EVgo:

"Cancelling is easy….no fees up to prior in install…so say you signed up next week and then you cancelled your LEAF…no obligation…Once you have the equipment installed it is $25 per month times the remaining number of months (36 is our standard, so $900 worst case), and you cancel whenever you want. If you fail to allow us to get the equipment back, an additional $350 comes into play.

At the end of the term, and this is still being worked through, but we envision the following:
Continue on your current plan
Request a new plan with your current charger.
Request a new plan with a new charger. Who knows what technology will be available including drive on induction charging.
Request to purchase current charger for FMV-Face Market Value.


EVGO is renting you the EVSE and at the end of the 3 year contract you can continue renting the same EVSE, rent a new EVSE or pay what the EVSE costs to keep it.

Is EVGO taking the tax credit for charging equipment and then depreciating the equipment over the 3 years allowed for rent to own equipment by the IRS and then selling it back to people who have rented it or renting that same equipment further? If people really start signing up it is a brilliant money making idea for EVGO, basically the equipment is all but paid for by the tax credit then +2 years of gravy. If the customer cancels they are on the hook for enough to cover the remainder of the equipment cost.
Cayenne Red SL-e, VIN 2192. Reserved: 4/20/10. Ordered: 10/2/10. Delivered: 6/2/11. Ingineer upgraded factory EVSE

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