psps
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Delivery Date: 31 Aug 2011

PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:43 pm

Checking in to see how many of you are following the directives that the California Public Utilities gave to PG&E regarding rates and Sub-Metering. I went so far as to call the PUC offices and reached a very njce staff member that is part of supporting the meetings on the topic.

First the good news - there is hope that PG&E will be presenting a new rate Time of Use in the next week or so. This is supposed to bring them in line with the flat rates used by San Diego and So Cal Edision. Fingers and toes crossed for a fast track approval. New rates by the Holidays?!

In regards to sub-metering so that you can have a single service but isolate EV charging is on a MUCH slower track. The reason is not that this can't technically be done - it is agreeing on a protocol between utilities, smartmeters, EVs, billing systems, etc. PUC is calling for protocols to be submitted in June 2012. I'm guessing that pushes that out trials and market ready offering until 2013.

Any one else following this closely? This is a topic near and dear to us as we live on the central coast where baselines are small and our roof is not good candidate for solar. Still on E1 plan at the moment.

pkeys
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Location: Milpitas, California

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:50 pm

I was aware of the decision but haven't been following subsequent activity closely. I am interested in getting updates since I haven't been able to find any info on how tiering works for the E9A rate we're on now.
Phil
Milpitas, California
Nissan LEAF SL, Blue w/Level 3 charger
Delivery Date: July 2nd, 2011

chithi
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:03 pm

psps wrote:First the good news - there is hope that PG&E will be presenting a new rate Time of Use in the next week or so. This is supposed to bring them in line with the flat rates used by San Diego and So Cal Edision. Fingers and toes crossed for a fast track approval. New rates by the Holidays?!

Any idea what they plan to offer us?
the current tou rate with solar is just not that feasible since the peak-rate starts at 2pm (so we miss about 2hrs of peak solar generation there) & peak rate continues on till 9PM which does not make any sense.

I had written to CPUC earlier in the year that they should atleast consider ending the evening peak at around 5 or 6 but the reply I got did not seem to hold its worth in paper.

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ElectricVehicle
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:16 pm

pkeys wrote:I was aware of the decision but haven't been following subsequent activity closely. I am interested in getting updates since I haven't been able to find any info on how tiering works for the E9A rate we're on now.
The tiers are in the E-9 (A/B) rate schedule (I'm presuming PG&E): http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf

E-9B with a separate meter can have thousands in additional installation costs but has the long term benefit of a second baseline quantity for the EV that will help keep you out of the higher tiered rates. With E-9B, each meter gets a baseline quantity. It's like getting two baselines, though it's a baseline per meter and is not shared between the meters.
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AP1
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:33 pm

Is there a web-site that posts the CPUC decisions regarding PG&E?

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drees
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:27 pm

chithi wrote:the current tou rate with solar is just not that feasible since the peak-rate starts at 2pm (so we miss about 2hrs of peak solar generation there) & peak rate continues on till 9PM which does not make any sense.

Well, unfortunately that time frame matches closely with actual demand. Have a look at the CAISO site basically any day of the week.

http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html

Peak demand across the state is typically between 2pm and 9pm...
'11 LEAF SL delivered Jun '11 - 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV
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2 months too late.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:09 pm

Everything you wanted to know about the CPUC and ev rates:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/published/Final_decision/139969.htm#TopOfPage

Section 5.4 states that rates will be reviewed in 2013 since "The EVSP Coalition stated that the Commission should revisit existing Electric Vehicle rates after it has obtained a sufficient understanding of consumer Electric Vehicle usage and charging by early adopters. Two studies that will yield instructive results are Ecotality's Electric Vehicle Project and Coulomb's ChargePoint America."

I can't find any information regarding current deliberations of a TOU rate for PG&E electric vehicle owners.

chithi
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:31 pm

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:24 am

drees wrote:
chithi wrote:the current tou rate with solar is just not that feasible since the peak-rate starts at 2pm (so we miss about 2hrs of peak solar generation there) & peak rate continues on till 9PM which does not make any sense.

Well, unfortunately that time frame matches closely with actual demand. Have a look at the CAISO site basically any day of the week.

http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html

Peak demand across the state is typically between 2pm and 9pm...

That was informative - I was always under the impression that the 6-9 peak allocation was something PGE must have thrust on the PUC -
since to the best of my knowledge most all industrial/commercial activity ends by 5/6 pm.

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ElectricVehicle
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:43 am

chithi wrote:
drees wrote:
chithi wrote:the current tou rate with solar is just not that feasible since the peak-rate starts at 2pm (so we miss about 2hrs of peak solar generation there) & peak rate continues on till 9PM which does not make any sense.

Well, unfortunately that time frame matches closely with actual demand. Have a look at the CAISO site basically any day of the week.

http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html

Peak demand across the state is typically between 2pm and 9pm...

That was informative - I was always under the impression that the 6-9 peak allocation was something PGE must have thrust on the PUC -
since to the best of my knowledge most all industrial/commercial activity ends by 5/6 pm.
The peak also shifts on the hottest days. On cooler days, you get the everyone leaves work but arrives home, cooks, turns on the TV and the lights etc... effect. On hotter days, you still have the evening arrive home peak, but you have a much larger super peak from 2pm to 6 pm from Air Conditioning. The end of the peak lags the sun intensity by an hour or so because of the thermal mass of the buildings. On statewide HOT days, the air conditioning drives the super peak... and occasional blackout! :o

Also check out the graph for the Super Off Peak. Consider setting your EV charging to fit this window for the least impact to the grid and fewest emissions. Say 1am - 6am. Since the LEAF only has half a charger at 3.3 kW and takes longer to charge than EVs like the RAV4 EV or GM EV1 of 10 years ago and takes 2 hours longer to charge, you might go from 12am - 7am.
Blue Nissan Leaf SL+QC rsrvd 4/21/10 order 11/24/10 delivered 5/29/11 (Apr May Jun Jul Jun May Jun) Polar Bear Hug 12/11/2010
1999 Green GM EV1, 7.2kW Solar Electric (PV); 2002 RAV4 EV; Carbon Neutral since 2010
It's time to LEAF! LEAF Oil behind!

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planet4ever
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:26 am

chithi wrote:the current tou rate with solar is just not that feasible since the peak-rate starts at 2pm (so we miss about 2hrs of peak solar generation there) & peak rate continues on till 9PM which does not make any sense.

You are referring to the PG&E EV rate (E9), not the solar rates. Even though you have an EV you can still change to the E6 solar rate, which is 1 PM to 7 PM for peak, rather than 2 PM to 9 PM. (There is also an E7 rate which is noon to 6 PM for peak, but only the privileged few who got that a few years back can still use it.)

Whether E6 or E9 will be better for you depends on many factors, but I have chosen to stay on E6 because we have a relatively large PV system (7kW) and my EV mileage is relatively low (about 600 miles/month).

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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