oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:46 am

AP1 wrote:Everything you wanted to know about the CPUC and ev rates:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/published/Final_decision/139969.htm#TopOfPage

Section 5.4 states that rates will be reviewed in 2013 since "The EVSP Coalition stated that the Commission should revisit existing Electric Vehicle rates after it has obtained a sufficient understanding of consumer Electric Vehicle usage and charging by early adopters. Two studies that will yield instructive results are Ecotality's Electric Vehicle Project and Coulomb's ChargePoint America."

I can't find any information regarding current deliberations of a TOU rate for PG&E electric vehicle owners.


There is a directive to PG&E to eliminate tiers, but only in the E-9B rate:

5.1.2. Residential Separate and Submetered Electric Vehicle Rates

As shown in Table 1, above, SDG&E and SCE already offer separately metered Electric Vehicle rates that are opt-in, non-tiered, and time-of-use. In contrast, PG&E's E-9b rate is a separately metered, opt in, time-of-use rate, that is tiered.15 Therefore, we direct PG&E to file an advice letter to modify Electric Rates Tariff Schedule E-9b to eliminate the tiers. This advice letter shall be filed as a Tier 2 advice letter within 60 days of the effective date of today's decision.

The PUC is apparently hoping that sub-metering costs will dramatically decline in the next couple of years, so that "whole house" rates, such as E-9A, can be eliminated. Otherwise, the PUC has directed the utilities to explore getting rid of tiers for off-peak use by 2013.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

psps
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:59 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Aug 2011

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates [New E-9 Rate

Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:16 pm

The nice fellow at the CPUC I spoke with suggested that I request to be put on the list for EV related rates. Among a few other things relating to comments on wholesale / resale clarifications along came the proposal today from PG&E for the new E-9A and E-9B rates.

This should be a conversation starter.... or at least some spread sheets cranking up to figure out what this means for you (if you are among the 324 current E-9A rate holders or 35 or so E9-B folks) - or were on the fence about changing rates. Time frame could be as early as November / December for new rates to go live if there's no objections.

Link to full document: http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/t ... 3910-E.pdf

PG&E is proposing to make these the same flat Time of Use as follows - (+$8.00 fee per month):

Summer
Peak = $0.38451
Part-Peak = $0.21431
Off-Peak = $0.11041

Winter
Peak = $0.27932
Part-Peak = $0.17365
Off-Peak = $0.11305

They also are looking to change the times of day:

TIME PERIODS: Times of the year and times of the day are defined as follows:
All Year
Peak: 2:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Monday through Sunday AND 3:00 p.m. to 7 p.m. Saturday, Sunday and holidays
Partial-Peak: 7:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. AND 9:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. Monday through Friday, plus 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. AND 7:00 p.m. to 11:00 (T) p.m. Saturday, Sunday and holidays
Off-Peak: All other hours.

DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME ADJUSTMENT: The time periods shown above will begin and end one hour later for the period between the second Sunday in March and the first Sunday in April, and for the period between the last Sunday in October (T) and the first Sunday in November.
2. SEASONAL CHANGES: The summer season is May 1 through October 31 and the winter season is November 1 through April 30. When billing includes use in both the summer and winter periods, charges will be prorated based upon the number of days in each period. The baseline credit will be calculated by multiplying the applicable daily baseline quantity and rates for each season by the number of days in each season for the billing period.

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:33 am

It will take a while to digest this proposal, but two things stick out. First, the PG&E Advice Letter [page 3] talks about an $8 per month "customer charge." I couldn't find this anywhere in the proposed rate schedule, but that's a big chunk of change. Second, the summer peak rate is almost 40 cents per kwH. It seems to me that, unless your peak usage is minimal, that would wipe out any gain from the elimination of tiers. The Advice Letter says that PG&E plans to give notice to all of us who are already on, or who have pending applications for, the E-9 rate. I will certainly be asking them to recalculate my bills over the last three months under the new proposal and under E-1.

Could you please provide information on how to get on the list for "EV related rates?" Thanks for posting this information.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

psps
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:59 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Aug 2011

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:27 am

How to get on the list -

Email processoffice@cpuc.ca.gov ask to be put on the "Information Only" list for "R.09-08-009".

Rather interesting list of folks on the distribution list - ALL the players are represented.

-Paul

chithi
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:31 pm

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:35 am

oakwcj wrote:It will take a while to digest this proposal, but two things stick out. First, the PG&E Advice Letter [page 3] talks about an $8 per month "customer charge." I couldn't find this

Its there on pg 3. footnote 3 provides their "justification" for it. Its about 70kWh at the off peak rate.

Basically if you were regularly hitting tier 4+ regularly might makes sense but I liked how they worded this :)
Approximately one-quarter of this group of customers would pay
reduced bills, with bill reductions averaging approximately 15 percent.
Customers in the middle two quartiles of this group would all pay increased bills,
with an average increase of approximately 19 percent. Those customers in the
most severely impacted quartile would all have increases of 50 percent or more if
they continued to take service under Schedule E-9, and the average annual bill
increase for the customers in this quartile would be nearly 80 percent (an
average increase of $37 per month).

3/4 of the folks are going to be paying more...
And I am just glad I did not plonk down the 3-4k to get a second meter for e9b. Hope they atleast grandfather the existing rates for the folks that did.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:38 am

Well, I've been on E9a for one week, and now find that my bill annual PG&E bill will probably double, if this is adopted.

Little doubt that all owners of energy-efficient homes would be be far better off with E1, than with this POS.

I'll post the numbers, based on my one week's worth of info, and annual use estimates, later.
no condition is permanent

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:47 am

chithi wrote:
oakwcj wrote:It will take a while to digest this proposal, but two things stick out. First, the PG&E Advice Letter [page 3] talks about an $8 per month "customer charge." I couldn't find this

Its there on pg 3. footnote 3 provides their "justification" for it. Its about 70kWh at the off peak rate.

Basically if you were regularly hitting tier 4+ regularly might makes sense but I liked how they worded this :)
Approximately one-quarter of this group of customers would pay
reduced bills, with bill reductions averaging approximately 15 percent.
Customers in the middle two quartiles of this group would all pay increased bills,
with an average increase of approximately 19 percent. Those customers in the
most severely impacted quartile would all have increases of 50 percent or more if
they continued to take service under Schedule E-9, and the average annual bill
increase for the customers in this quartile would be nearly 80 percent (an
average increase of $37 per month).

3/4 of the folks are going to be paying more...
And I am just glad I did not plonk down the 3-4k to get a second meter for e9b. Hope they atleast grandfather the existing rates for the folks that did.


I recalculated my four months on E-9A under the new proposal. I would be paying roughly 10% more under the new rate, BEFORE the imposition of the $8 "customer charge." That would bring me up to about the 19% average hike. And this is supposed to provide incentives for buying EVs? There is nothing about grandfathering rates in the Advice Letter. That seems like a very low probability. The PUC has a Division of Ratepayer Advocacy [DRA] whose mission is self-evident. I'm trying to find out if DRA has assigned anyone to this issue. The proposal would seem to benefit those who drive all day and charge all night and don't use any electricity during peak hours.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:16 am

Replying to my own post, I recalculated my last two bills using the E-1 rate. My bills would be extremely close to the new proposal, which means that there would be NO incentive to charge off-peak. Because that's the stated purpose of a TOU rate, this proposal gets an "F."
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

BlueSL
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:30 am

This is why PG&E should just provide a larger baseline for EV owners. PG&E already does this for customers who live in hotter areas or have an electric furnace.

There will shortly come a time when all the EV-crazy drivers will have their cars. Then, the process of wooing the ICE drivers will begin. This stuff is WAY too complicated (and, in the case of the second meter option, way too expensive) to get people out of their ICEs.

Come on, PG&E. This is new business for you. Make it easy for people to buy your product.
Now driving: 2011 Blue SL+QC
Reserved 4/23
Ordered 12/4
Delivered 6/7

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:49 am

BlueSL wrote:This is why PG&E should just provide a larger baseline for EV owners. PG&E already does this for customers who live in hotter areas or have an electric furnace.

There will shortly come a time when all the EV-crazy drivers will have their cars. Then, the process of wooing the ICE drivers will begin. This stuff is WAY too complicated (and, in the case of the second meter option, way too expensive) to get people out of their ICEs.

Come on, PG&E. This is new business for you. Make it easy for people to buy your product.


They should have simply eliminated the tiers for off-peak hours and come up with a reasonable flat rate. That's what I thought the PUC wanted them to do. PG&E clearly doesn't want to do this at all and so has put out a proposal designed to sabotage the entire concept of providing an incentive to charge when demand is lowest.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

Return to “Utilities”