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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:04 pm

Man this sucks! And just looking it over and doing some quick math in my head my current E9A bill will be double or perhaps close to triple when computed over the year under this proposal and this is basing it on the new higher rates that we just got as a result of lowering the tiers.

And someone please explain what the hell the following means:
Peak: 2:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Monday through Sunday AND 3:00 p.m. to 7 p.m. Saturday, Sunday and holidays
Last time I checked Monday through Sunday is all seven days of the week. Perhaps a typo?

I am just so glad that PG&E is going to raise my rates in order to make them easier to understand and provide me with reasonable incentives :roll:
Accordingly, PG&E herein proposes modifications to Schedule E-9 in compliance with D.11-07-029 to revise the rate to make it easier for customers to understand, while continuing to provide reasonable incentives to encourage off peak electric vehicle charging based on cost of service principles.

By the way I provided PG&E months of my EV usage data way back in 1998 so its not like they did not have this sort of usage data to work with since then. From my PG&E study paperwork:
This study will provide PG&E with information about how its EV customers are responding to the experimental E-9 rate schedule.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:18 pm

oakwcj wrote:Replying to my own post, I recalculated my last two bills using the E-1 rate. My bills would be extremely close to the new proposal, which means that there would be NO incentive to charge off-peak. Because that's the stated purpose of a TOU rate, this proposal gets an "F."
This is why this proposal makes no sense to me. Why would those customers that are going to be screwed by this change, and it seems to be the majority, stay on E9 rate at all? I would think they would just go back to E1 and not even worry about TOU. Time to get out the spreadsheet again.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:28 pm

I agree, this sucks. I would miss the off-peak rates of $0.05 to $0.06 per kWh.

Looks like if this plan is approved, I would switch to E6 instead.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:41 pm

greenleaf wrote:Looks like if this plan is approved, I would switch to E6 instead.
At least those with a solar system have that option to avoid this rate proposal until PG&E proposes changes to those rates too. It was just recently that PG&E even allowed those that had an EV to even choose a different rate. In the end off grid or moving out of PG&E territory might be the only option to avoid this kind of thing.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:55 pm

Wow...the proposed change in rates really is utter crap. Unless, you are a consumer that regularly hits Tier 4 and 5 of your electricity rate, this proposed change will effectively cost you much more. Those who conserve on electricity usage are extremely short-changed by this proposal.

How well does the CPUC respond to letters challenging these proposals? I'm definitely sending one in today.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:17 pm

oakwcj wrote:First, the PG&E Advice Letter [page 3] talks about an $8 per month "customer charge." I couldn't find this anywhere in the proposed rate schedule, but that's a big chunk of change.
Oh its in the rate schedule under total rates as:
Total Customer Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.26283
and comes out to, surprise, about $8 a month.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:30 pm

Spies wrote:
oakwcj wrote:First, the PG&E Advice Letter [page 3] talks about an $8 per month "customer charge." I couldn't find this anywhere in the proposed rate schedule, but that's a big chunk of change.
Oh its in the rate schedule under total rates as:
Total Customer Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.26283
and comes out to, surprise, about $8 a month.


Yes, I see that. [It's on "Sheet 2."] It appears that it's just added on top of the bill, which makes it that much worse.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:26 pm

I estimated my PG&E bill, using the week of info from my "dumb" TOU meter, since it was installed last Tuesday.

I have used:

9 kWh peak, 18 kWh part peak, and 60 kWh off-peak.

Multiplying these totals by 4.3 to approximate a monthly bill:

My E1 rate would have given me about $48 total bill for the month, for 374 kWh. This about my monthly average use.

E1 = $576 (estimated annual bill)

The E9a rate should give me a bill of about $34 this month-$41 with the temporary meter charge.
My Winter bill for the same 374 kWh, with same TOU distribution would be about $27

E9a = $366 (estimated annual bill)

The "new and improved" E9 rate proposal (assuming a 10 kWh shift to weekend, now peak, use) would bill me about $77 in the summer, and $47 in Winter-including the new permanent $8 service charge.

So, this proposal would increase my expected annual E 9 bill over 100%, from $366 (not including the temporary service charge) to $744.

E9 revised = $744 (estimated annual bill)

E6 would give me a Summer bill of about $55. I expect the E6 option would be more expensive than E1, for almost all AC using non-PV EV owners in the summer, but some could save a few bucks a month on E-6 in the winter. Looks like my winter bill would be about $46, for the same 374 kWh. So E6 is still higher for the year, for me, than E1.

E6 = $606 (estimated annual bill)

I guess PG&E wants me on E1.

I guess they won't mind me charging during peak hours...
Last edited by edatoakrun on Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:57 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:45 pm

If you wish to oppose this rate change, you may want to refer to CPUC guidelines:

Rate Design Guidance

The third question that the strategic work plan needs to address is "how should the dynamic pricing tariffs be designed and integrated into PG&E's overall rate design?" In other words, when PG&E proposes rates pursuant to the timetable, what should the dynamic rates look like? This section answers these questions and provides rate design guidance for PG&E to apply when developing rates. This rate design guidance will also be applied by the Commission when considering PG&E's specific rate design proposals.

The following sections address different aspects of rate design, take into consideration comments from parties, and establish rate design guidance. The rate design guidance also appears in summary form as Attachment A to this decision.

5.1. All Dynamic Pricing Rates5.1.1. The Objectives of Rate Design

The August 22, 2007 Ruling identified three objectives of rate design:

(1) to reflect the marginal cost of providing electric service so that consumers make economically efficient decisions,

(2) to flatten the load curve in order to reduce capital costs over time, and

(3) to reduce load in the face of short-term electricity supply shortfalls....

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/published/final ... 984-04.htm


I don't see how having a large percentage of EV owners, choosing E1 as their cheapest rate option, and conveniently charging their cars on hot summer afternoons, meets these 3 primary goals...
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:33 pm

edatoakrun wrote:I don't see how having a large percentage of EV owners, choosing E1 as their cheapest rate option, and conveniently charging their cars on hot summer afternoons, meets these 3 primary goals...
At the end of the day PG&E and the CPUC will set the rates and I will change rates accordingly as a result. If it turns out that there is minimal savings for me to still be on E9A compared to E1 I am going back to E1 and as a result charge the Leaf, do laundry, run the dish washer and any other electricity using activity I can think of whenever I want. In fact it sounds liberating after being on E9A since 1998 and I may end up thanking PG&E and the CPUC for their decision to impose this change. Perhaps I will even install a whole house air conditioner I can run anytime I want and not be concerned with TOU. I am actually starting to look forward to it! :roll:
Green Honda EV Plus 02/1998-12/2003 plate "ZERO CO2" rip, Aptera 2e #726 canceled
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