edatoakrun
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:52 pm

Spies wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:I don't see how having a large percentage of EV owners, choosing E1 as their cheapest rate option, and conveniently charging their cars on hot summer afternoons, meets these 3 primary goals...
At the end of the day PG&E and the CPUC will set the rates and I will change rates accordingly as a result. If it turns out that there is minimal savings for me to still be on E9A compared to E1 I am going back to E1 and as a result charge the Leaf, do laundry, run the dish washer and any other electricity using activity I can think of whenever I want. In fact it sounds liberating after being on E9A since 1998 and I may end up thanking PG&E and the CPUC for their decision to impose this change. Perhaps I will even install a whole house air conditioner I can run anytime I want and not be concerned with TOU. I am actually starting to look forward to it! :roll:


Just be sure to get the cheapest, lowest-efficiency AC system you can find.

Once you're on E1, the other PG&E ratepayers will be subsidizing it's use...
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planet4ever
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:33 pm

I agree this really sounds bad, but couldn't it change the balance so that E1 + E9B might become a winner, despite the upfront cost?

Or <grin> strongly encourage more people to join us solar folks?

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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Spies
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:24 am

I can only see E1 + the new E9B being an economically feasible option for me if PG&E was to allow meters in series.

Solar is also not really a feasible option for me for various reasons either at the moment. Perhaps in the future? Of course if all the Federal solar incentives are eliminated along with PG&E possibly hitting the Net Energy Metering cap and it not being raised solar will still not be feasible for me in the future either.

By the way I just got last months E9A electric bill which came to $80.25 and would have been closer to $60 before the recent tier changes. On E1 the bill would be about $108 and on the new E9A at a minimum it would $105 but I know it would be much more since I will no longer have access to off peak during the weekend when I do laundry with my electric dryer and there will be peak on the weekend as well. Now add the fact that peak will also run through winter while at the moment winter has no peak and it is easy to see that this new rate will about double my annual E9A bill if not more. So why would I bother with the TOU hassle when E1 will cost me about the same and possibly less than the new E9A?
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edatoakrun
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:42 am

planet4ever wrote:I agree this really sounds bad, but couldn't it change the balance so that E1 + E9B might become a winner, despite the upfront cost?

Or <grin> strongly encourage more people to join us solar folks?

Ray


Dual meters would be very a sure loser for me, and every other PG&E ratepayer who has a grid-minimum, energy efficient home. The solar option is more attractive, though the cost per kWh may be pretty high for those who only need a 2-3 kW system to supply both their home and EV.

The current E1 tiered rate system encourages home energy efficiency.

Arguably, TOU more closely mirrors economic and environmental costs than tiers.

But PG&E's "new and improved" E9 proposal essentially removes the tiered rate home efficiency incentives, for EV owners, while leaving them for non-EV owners.

Many EV owners-and prospective EV owners- will see the same doubling of their E9a bills that I have, due to this proposal, pushing them back into E1.

Great publicity for both PG&E and the EV rollout in California!

6 months ago I would have given PG&E a D+ grade for public EV infrastructure, and a B+ for home infrastructure.

With the (NO) DC charger fiasco, and this half-baked proposal, I have a hard time justifying higher than an F for PG&E, for both efforts.
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waitingforaleaf
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:31 am

edatoakrun wrote:The current E1 tiered rate system encourages home energy efficiency.

Arguably, TOU more closely mirrors economic and environmental costs than tiers.

But PG&E's "new and improved" E9 proposal essentially removes the tiered rate home efficiency incentives, for EV owners, while leaving them for non-EV owners.

Many EV owners-and prospective EV owners- will see the same doubling of their E9a bills that I have, due to this proposal, pushing them back into E1.

Great publicity for both PG&E and the EV rollout in California!

6 months ago I would have given PG&E a D+ grade for public EV infrastructure, and a B+ for home infrastructure.

With the (NO) DC charger fiasco, and this half-baked proposal, I have a hard time justifying higher than an F for PG&E, for both efforts.


Would definitely agree that this "new and improved" E9 proposal is everything but an improvement. Really it ultimately comes down to PG&E footing the bill to its customers while attempting to look like it's obeying CPUC decision 11-07-029, which was established to promote electric vehicle adoption and off-peak charging. Raising the rates to 75% of current E-9a users to basically subsidize the 25% of heavy electricity users should not be what occurs (which I believe was proposed so that PG&E would not lose a dime by converting to non-tier TOU). E-9b users are fully screwed by this proposal as well.

In any case, I have sent in my protest letter electronically to the e-mail addresses found in Advice 3910-E and would urge other E-9 customers to send in protest letters as well. Heck if enough letters go in, perhaps the CPUC will actually pay attention to what PG&E is actually doing rather than blindly allow it to pass through.
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mxp
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:13 am

waitingforaleaf wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:The current E1 tiered rate system encourages home energy efficiency.

Arguably, TOU more closely mirrors economic and environmental costs than tiers.

But PG&E's "new and improved" E9 proposal essentially removes the tiered rate home efficiency incentives, for EV owners, while leaving them for non-EV owners.

Many EV owners-and prospective EV owners- will see the same doubling of their E9a bills that I have, due to this proposal, pushing them back into E1.

Great publicity for both PG&E and the EV rollout in California!

6 months ago I would have given PG&E a D+ grade for public EV infrastructure, and a B+ for home infrastructure.

With the (NO) DC charger fiasco, and this half-baked proposal, I have a hard time justifying higher than an F for PG&E, for both efforts.


Would definitely agree that this "new and improved" E9 proposal is everything but an improvement. Really it ultimately comes down to PG&E footing the bill to its customers while attempting to look like it's obeying CPUC decision 11-07-029, which was established to promote electric vehicle adoption and off-peak charging. Raising the rates to 75% of current E-9a users to basically subsidize the 25% of heavy electricity users should not be what occurs (which I believe was proposed so that PG&E would not lose a dime by converting to non-tier TOU). E-9b users are fully screwed by this proposal as well.

In any case, I have sent in my protest letter electronically to the e-mail addresses found in Advice 3910-E and would urge other E-9 customers to send in protest letters as well. Heck if enough letters go in, perhaps the CPUC will actually pay attention to what PG&E is actually doing rather than blindly allow it to pass through.


Thanks for the heads up on this issue. I too, will be sending in a letter soon.

http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/t ... 3910-E.pdf

I would like to know if the CPUC would hold a public meeting to gather public opinion on this matter? Or will the decision be decided behind closed doors?

mxp
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:24 am

Could someone on the forum be kind enough to DRAFT a template combining all the great and wonderful suggestions/opinions opposing the matter?

This would allow quick and easy access to the content that others on the forum can re-purpose.

It would be easier to encourage friends/family or fellow members to send in a letter of protest if we could simply copy/cut-n-paste a sample DRAFT, sign it and mail it in. (or email).

Thanks in advance.

edatoakrun
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:12 am

mxp wrote:
[quote
Thanks for the heads up on this issue. I too, will be sending in a letter soon.

http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/t ... 3910-E.pdf

I would like to know if the CPUC would hold a public meeting to gather public opinion on this matter? Or will the decision be decided behind closed doors?


It looks like PG&E is trying to use an "interim" rate adjustment procedure to bypass meaningful public input. Note that the PG&E letter states that E9 rates are scheduled to be reviewed as part of the 2013 rate case.

By notifying only the few hundred current EV owners on E9 (anyone get their notification letter yet?) not the tens of thousands who will be on E9 by 2013, PG&E can avoid the spectacle of hundreds or thousands of EV owners showing up at the public hearings, and protesting their 60%-100% E9 rate increases.

It also looks, from the letter, that the CPUC ONLY directed PG&E to revise E9b rates, but PG&E has seized the opportunity to expand the revision, to include E9a.

Anyone familiar with CPUC procedures, who can suggest any action we can take beyond writing protest letters?
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greenleaf
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:18 am

I wonder if PG&E would allow a rate schedule change if this were to take effect in a few months? Normally, as far as I know, a customer has to stick to the same rate schedule for a minimum of one year before PG&E allow a change.

I would be very unhappy if I were to be stuck to the new unfavorable rate until the 12-month period is over.
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Spies
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Re: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:37 am

greenleaf wrote:I wonder if PG&E would allow a rate schedule change if this were to take effect in a few months?
They certainly better as this is no simple "rate adjustment" but a completely new rate structure all together. For example my current E9A meter will have to be changed out or completely reprogrammed for this new rate structure.
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