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Randy
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:29 pm

smkettner wrote:14 cents is the super off-peak rate in CA while the national average is 11 cents day in day out. :o


Yes, it is true that many other utilities in the country have lower average rates than those of us in CA. But ask your family member in those areas what their total bill is and usually you'll see that it a lot higher when their heating and cooling kWh are added in.

It's the curse of living in a temperate climate. We just don't use that much energy per household, so it costs more per unit to pay for the associated fixed costs (infrastructure). But our average overall bills tend to be less...

electricfuture
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:18 pm

Randy, thanks for clarifying some issues. I am aware the TOU rates have been around. I originally asked for TOU until discussions with the SDG&E rate group revealed that they only lower your costs if you are a heavy night time user. The day/evening rates are significantly higher than if you stay within the tier 1-2 rates, so I have a separate meter for my EV.
SDG&E fooled me again on their rate tables you are correct: “Utility Distribution Company (UDC) Total Rate shown above excludes any applicable commodity charges associated with Schedule EECC and Schedule DWR-BC (Department of Water Resources Bond Charge).”

When will SDG&E provide a rate table on your bill that includes ALL per kWH charges instead of footnoting additional charges? Apparently the ONLY SDG&E published rates tables that are all inclusive of per kWH charges are the EV Study Table (X,Y,Z).

Yes, it is true that many other utilities in the country have lower average rates than those of us in CA. But ask your family member in those areas what their total bill is and usually you'll see that it a lot higher when their heating and cooling kWh are added in.

It's the curse of living in a temperate climate. We just don't use that much energy per household, so it costs more per unit to pay for the associated fixed costs (infrastructure). But our average overall bills tend to be less...


Concerning higher utility rates because we are in a mild climate - yes bills are higher in other parts of the country due to weather but it is because of more usage but still at lower rates. Weather/temperature swings in the rest of the country greatly increase operating costs. We in San Diego should be receiving the benefit of lower utility costs due to mild weather not the other way around. Talk to a lineman/operator in Wisconsin, Michigan or Florida to understand the difference. And it is not due to the "high cost of fuel" - SEMPRA (their owner) provides much of the fuel (gas) - both have made a very handsome profit for the last several years in a deep recession and have announced a rate (profit) increase. Haven't the citizens periodically sued SDG&E to rein in the rates? And what is SDG&E doing with the additional profits? Are they accelerating their 400 year plan ;) to put utilities underground in older neighborhoods? Or are they connecting to out of state fossil fuel power plants fuelled by SEMPRA (Sunrise). $1 Billon transmission line = profits $1 Billion PV panels on S.D. roofs = no profit.

As noted the National average is $0.11 per kWH – BPA charges $0.07 24-7 and they operate in a relatively mild climate. Now compare these rates not to our “Super Off Peak” rate but to our day time use tiered rates and you can see why SDG&E/SEMPRA are so profitable.

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drees
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:25 pm

Don't forget that electricity rates in CA tend to be higher as well because of how clean the grid is in terms of emissions. Aside from the north west states who get a ton of power from big hydro, CA has the cleanest grid around which comes at a price.
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:30 pm

drees wrote:Don't forget that electricity rates in CA tend to be higher as well because of how clean the grid is in terms of emissions. Aside from the north west states who get a ton of power from big hydro, CA has the cleanest grid around which comes at a price.

I rather believe that in the days of Enron and the power 'shortage' in CA there were many lucrative deals signed to guarantee power rather than go through the crooked Enron brokers. Now we are stuck with these long term high priced deals. If they had just sweated it out and let the bubble of manipulation collapse I think rates right now would be somewhat lower. JMHO.
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drees
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:37 pm

smkettner wrote:I rather believe that in the days of Enron and the power 'shortage' in CA there were many lucrative deals signed to guarantee power rather than go through the crooked Enron brokers. Now we are stuck with these long term high priced deals. If they had just sweated it out and let the bubble of manipulation collapse I think rates right now would be somewhat lower. JMHO.

Did electricity rates go up significantly around 2001-2002? Seems like they are always going up - SDG&E's is blaming insurance costs and the RPS most recently...

Edit: The data I found did show a spike shortly after Enron, but prices went down a few years later. Looking at the long term trend the rate of increase is fairly constant.
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electricfuture
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:51 am

Well the rates were changed Sept. 1, and according to Randy at SDG&E the new tables have not yet been updated. He did explain that they are trying to change the way the rates are shown on your bill to be all inclusive but this requires CPUD approval. However, in the mean time he furnished me with a link that actually shows the all in rate tables that you would have great difficulty finding on their site:

http://www.sdge.com/customer/rates/totalRates.shtml

Here you can compare and see why most of us are better off using the tiered rates for the house and a separate meter for the car.

Also note that although the rates are going to change it looks like the just over $0.14 per kWH "Super" rate will apply to everyone come next April when the EV study ends.

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davewill
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:46 pm

electricfuture wrote:Also note that although the rates are going to change it looks like the just over $0.14 per kWH "Super" rate will apply to everyone come next April when the EV study ends.
Where did you get that? I saw nothing on that page about future rates, and the fact sheet SDG&E sent out says the rate study will run through the end of 2012.
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EricH
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:25 am

davewill wrote:Isn't there also a monthly meter charge with EV-TOU?

Probably not; all the California utilities are installing "smart" meters, which will collect hourly data -- thus, no marginal cost to bill a customer hourly rather than monthly.
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Randy
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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:32 am

electricfuture wrote:Well the rates were changed Sept. 1, and according to Randy at SDG&E the new tables have not yet been updated. He did explain that they are trying to change the way the rates are shown on your bill to be all inclusive but this requires CPUD approval. However, in the mean time he furnished me with a link that actually shows the all in rate tables that you would have great difficulty finding on their site:

http://www.sdge.com/customer/rates/totalRates.shtml

Here you can compare and see why most of us are better off using the tiered rates for the house and a separate meter for the car.

Also note that although the rates are going to change it looks like the just over $0.14 per kWH "Super" rate will apply to everyone come next April when the EV study ends.


Thanks, Electric Future, I was about to dig up the link myself and post it when I saw that you did it. As you mentioned, the rates referenced in this link are a tiny bit off and need to be updated since the 9/1 schedules took effect. The website is currently being revamped, so hopefully those updates will be posted soon.

To clarify my comment about the study, the rates created for the study (EPEV-X, Y, and Z) are expected to be good through April 2013. After that, people on those study rates will be asked to choose which of the traditional EV rates they'd like to move to (EV-TOU or EV-TOU2 at this time). We don't know yet if any new rates will be created besides those two, but there could be other rates at that time to choose from.

I hope that helps...

Thanks, Randy

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Re: SDG&E Introduces New EV Rate Sept. 1, 2011

Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:41 pm

If you own a Leaf in Seatle it would cost about $12 a month as their rate is $0.0461 per kWH day and night 7 days a week and this is the ALL INCLUSIVE rate per my son's recent bill. Here we wonder if we will be able to have a $0.14 rate for 5 hours in the middle of the night when the study program ends. Note Seatle's rate is about 20% of SDG&E's average rate.

How did they do it? Read this (http://seattle.gov/light/accounts/rates/ac5_rt2k1.htm):

Introduction to a Rate Adjustment

As a municipal utility, Seattle City Light is owned by the citizens of Seattle and governed by the elected officials of the Seattle City Council. In setting rates, the Council adheres to two long-standing principles:
1. Rates should reflect the cost of serving the customer. Some customers cost more to serve than others, and rates need to be set such that no customer or group of customers subsidizes another.
2. Rates should be set to cover City Light's operating costs and not to generate profits.
City Light rates are subject to regular reviews, usually at two-year intervals. These entail calculating how much it will cost City Light to operate during that period, and how much income needs to be generated from rates to meet these costs. It also entails determining the cost of service for the various groups of City Light customers, and designing rates to reflect these costs. Before approving new rates, the Council conducts an extensive review process, including public hearings.
In addition to regular reviews, City Light rates occasionally need in-course adjustments to keep up with unpredicted changes. For example, if the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA) lowers its power charges to City Light, it could mean a downward adjustment in rates. Likewise, higher purchased power prices (as we experienced in 2001) could mean an upward adjustment.

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