SDG&E introduces EV rate pilot

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Randy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
2,175
Location
San Diego, CA
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/san-diego-gas-electric-approved-for-time-of-use-ev-charging-pilot/

Very interesting....I hope I'm in the "low" priced super off-peak group......

Randy
 
They need to clarify in the rates just how PV generation gets credit for the over-generation in the daytime.

Is it:
1. You get kWh-for-kWh credit, or
2. Pay full rate price to buy (e+d) but only get credit for the "just-electricity" ('e') cost (excludes their distribution ('d') rates), or
3. Get full TOD rate (e+d) credit for net generation, and pay full TOD rate for net usage.

Now (on the SDG&E standard residential tiered plan), monthly I only pay the $5 minimum "connection fee" and for any NET usage for the entire month. They keep a running (monthly) "credit" of any NET generated kWh and some related $$ amount (approximates the 'e' cost only), but it is not clear how they get that $$ amount, or what they do with it.
 
Good info, thanks for the link, Randy.

I also have PV, so wonder what category I'd fall under, too. Anything under the current cheapest rate of 12-13c/kWh sounds good to me - I will certainly charge at off-peak rates whenever possible to get those rates. And rates of 6.7-7.7c/kWh is cutting a huge cost of recharging.

It kind of smells like a study to figure out "how much can we get away with charging people to encourage them to charge off-peak instead of on-peak so we maximize profits and avoid building expensive, barely utilized peaker plants".
 
The local newspaper just picked up the story as well...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jun/24/experimental-rates-okd-plug-vehicles/

Interesting about the two meter concept. I wasn't planning on having a second meter...
 
Unless I missed it, both stories forgot to mention that single-meter time-of-use electricity rates can drive an existing bill up substantially in areas where summer air conditioning is essential, even without additional draw from EV charging. So far this seems to be kind of a dirty secret.
 
DeaneG said:
Unless I missed it, both stories forgot to mention that single-meter time-of-use electricity rates can drive an existing bill up substantially in areas where summer air conditioning is essential, even without additional draw from EV charging. So far this seems to be kind of a dirty secret.
That's why you want a separate meter for EV charging. That way your normal usage is billed at the regular rate and your EV charging is billed at the TOU rate.
 
If I get 2 meters to charge the EV at night rates, and run the house A/C (mostly afternoon) on tier-rates, then I might have to put in a transfer switch to run each meter backward for part of the month?

Or, get lots of credit for generation on the TOD EV meter, and use that money to pay the house bill?

It depends how they handle the crediting, I guess.
 
There are a few interesting statements in the San Diego Union article such as:

How big a discount will depend on which of three rates they end up with. Some people will pay 13 cents a kilowatt-hour to charge at night, and 27 cents in the daytime. Others will pay 7 cents at night and 38 cents in the daytime.

Does this mean you will be assigned randomly to one of the three rate structures? If you are not generating power I do not think you would want to be in the last category with daytime rates at $.38/kWh. As another poster commented, it would be very expensive to run your AC during the day. However, this would be great if you are generating power and receiving $.38/kWh for excess generation during that period. Presently I'm in the SDGE DR-SES time-of-use rate (only for solar customers) and receive $.275/kWh for excess generation from 11AM-6PM M-F. I would like to get $.38/kWh if I could. Actually, the rate schedule that I am presently in is very close to the first rate schedule mentioned in the article. I asked SDGE and they told me that I could change to the EV rate if I purchased an EV, even as a solar customer. But the EV rate that was in place isn't as favorable for excess generating because the peak window is 12-6 PM in the summer season, one hour shorter than the DR-SES schedule. And, the lowest rate is $.137/kWh and only between 12 AM- 5 PM. In some cases the 5 hour window will not be large enough to fully charge the Leaf battery.

Electric-car owners will have two utility bills, one for the car, the other for their home. There are already 27 electric car owners in San Diego paying special rates, Larson said.[/i]

This would require two meters. SDGE (before this change), had 3 EV rates and two of them required a separate meter. One only required one meter for the EV and house combined. So I'm not sure if these three experimental rates require a separate meter.
 
garygid said:
They need to clarify in the rates just how PV generation gets credit for the over-generation in the daytime.

Is it:
1. You get kWh-for-kWh credit, or
2. Pay full rate price to buy (e+d) but only get credit for the "just-electricity" ('e') cost (excludes their distribution ('d') rates), or
3. Get full TOD rate (e+d) credit for net generation, and pay full TOD rate for net usage.

I used to be on schedule DR, the most common SDGE residential rate schedule. When I generated excess kWhs a few months ago I received approximately $.135/kWh credit on my bill which equals the last column on the rate schedule for baseline usage. SDGE calls it the Total Electric Rate. It would have been nice to get the $.29/kWh tier 4 rate instead, but no dice. :x
 
drees said:
DeaneG said:
Unless I missed it, both stories forgot to mention that single-meter time-of-use electricity rates can drive an existing bill up substantially in areas where summer air conditioning is essential, even without additional draw from EV charging. So far this seems to be kind of a dirty secret.
That's why you want a separate meter for EV charging. That way your normal usage is billed at the regular rate and your EV charging is billed at the TOU rate.

But if you have a PV system, don't you want TOU on one meter? Because aren't they paying you at peak TOU rates for what you put back on the grid and then selling back to you at the cheapest TOU rate when you recharge your Leaf overnight? Just so long as you make sure you don't exceed what you're producing during the day! That would be bad!
 
mwalsh said:
But if you have a PV system, don't you want TOU on one meter? Because aren't they paying you at peak TOU rates for what you put back on the grid and then selling back to you at the cheapest TOU rate when you recharge your Leaf overnight? Just so long as you make sure you don't exceed what you're producing during the day! That would be bad!

I think so. It would certainly give the fastest computed payback period for the PV system. That's what I am currently planning to do - I'd rather put money into a PV system than into re-engineering my perfectly good electric service entry, just because of something that could be solved by the power company in about 10 lines of software.
 
This morning I read the printed version of the San Diego Union article in the newspaper. The printed article is a little different, but it does say, "Electric-car owners will have two utility bills, one for the car, the other for their home." So it looks like a separate meter will be involved but it doesn't say how much the install cost will be for the meter and possibly a montly fee. But by isolating these rates to only EV charging, the utility will not be paying out large generating credits to PV customers who could be generating excess at $.38 per kWh. :x
 
My commute is 16 miles round trip. My RAV4-EV charged at about 16 miles worth of power per hour. So, every three days I plugged in and charged for 3 hours from 1am to 4am.

Unless you are really pushing the envelope on daily possible mileage (in which case I do not consider you a good candidate for Leaf v.1) then the Super-Off-Peak window is plenty adequate. I hope I can get the lowest off-peak, as I very rarely would use anything else. I was using two meters and would be again. The wiring is already there, they just plug in the meter for my installation.
 
btw - not sure I've seen the 'official' link to the SDG&E EV Project Pricing Study rates published.. but SDG&E was just kind enough to send it my way so here you all are.

http://sdge.com/regulatory/elec_residential.shtml

EPEV-L, EPEV-M, and EPEV-H are the 'pricing study' rates as part of the EV Project...and I've only really heard of people getting assigned EPEV-M and EPEV-H so far.

-Mike
 
Interestingly, I am on EPEV-R, which isn't even listed on the SDGE site. I think it equates to EPEV-H:

bill.png


Notice that the real total rate includes Electric Delivery and the DWR bond charge. I also have a PV system, but unlike many on the forum I don't have a large enough system to fully-offset my power needs at the house.

bill2.png


So you notice the 2 times I charged my car on a Saturday in the middle of the day because I was driving around a great deal had a huge impact on the bill for the month. I do think the rates will do what they intend - cause you to think twice before plugging in at peak times.
 
My bill says "EPEV Residential" as well, but your super off peak prices correlate to the EPEV-H (High Ratio) rate....That means the prices for Super Off-Peak are the lowest, but the on-peak price is higher...

This was posted elsewhere, but a reminder for SDG&E customers...The timeframes for the TOU periods change slightly for 3 weeks coming up due to the additional daylight savings time that has been added by the US government...

Beginning March 13 through April 2, the on-peak, super off-peak, and off-peak time periods will begin and end one hour later. Please visit http://www.sdge.com/residential/dst/ for more information.
 
The bill is actually understandable, great!

Two meters, a secondary meter for EV (on TOU) and the main meter on Net metering for the whole house and PV system, right?

They do not show (on these sheets) the before and after meter reading, or the "generated" power that went back into the grid. The 900+ power "delivered" seems to be a number "out of thin air".

I would love to see two consecutive months of the same SDG&E bills from somebody with two months of over-generaton.

THANKS for sharing your bills!
 
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