tbleakne
Gold Member
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:05 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2400
Location: Claremont, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:05 pm

smkettner wrote:Image


Thanks for your heads up on new TOU pricing. The most dramatic difference for me is the change in Super Off-Peak which of course is where we mostly charge the cars.

Within the window of
[- Max Baseline Credit] < Net total generation over all TOU periods < [+Max Baseline Credit]
all marginal rates, OnPk, OffPk, SOffPk are reduced by the Baseline Credit of $.10/kWh.
For SOffPk the marginal rate in this window has risen from [12 cents - 11 cents = 1 cent]/kWh to
[14 cents - 10 cents = $.04]/kWh.

This is still very low, but it does subtract from the bragging rights.
LEAF Ocean Blue SL, "100 % Electric" decals, Delivered June 3, 2011
Sold June 2014 27K miles, 18% capacity loss, 1 bar, 5.0 mi/kWh.
Solar 4.6 KW DC with both string and micro-inverters.

voltiar
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:59 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2013

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:18 am

I haven't been following this thread for a while because it's gotten so convoluted with all these rate changes. I will say this: I can't use up my credits fast enough. I've been running my AC non-stop, charging my Volt, running the pool pump and I am still at $280 in credits with $7-$20 summer electric bills and 4 months left in my relevant period. Whatever they are doing, keep doing it. Happy to not have to worry about running the AC when as it's been a blistering hot spring/summer. BTW, I'm on TOUT-D-A with 6k solar on my roof in OC, CA.

tbleakne
Gold Member
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:05 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2400
Location: Claremont, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:14 pm

voltiar wrote:I haven't been following this thread for a while because it's gotten so convoluted with all these rate changes. I will say this: I can't use up my credits fast enough. I've been running my AC non-stop, charging my Volt, running the pool pump and I am still at $280 in credits with $7-$20 summer electric bills and 4 months left in my relevant period. Whatever they are doing, keep doing it. Happy to not have to worry about running the AC when as it's been a blistering hot spring/summer. BTW, I'm on TOUT-D-A with 6k solar on my roof in OC, CA.


Yes, it is good to see others doing well on TOU-D-A. I am surprised how well I have done this year with the new TOU rates moving On-Peak to [2pm to 8pm] weekdays, even though I have been running my A/C at various levels around the clock during these hot spells. However, I am cheating a little with my new super-efficient ductless mini-split A/C system.

I believe many more folks with solar and a EV would prosper under TOU as currently structured, but they are never told about it by their solar installer. As a consequence, they are sold a larger solar array than they really need. A friend of mine in PG&E territory reports that when he got solar several years ago, his solar installer told him TOU was the default plan they recommended to all their customers. My friend does not have an EV and he has been happy. Much of PG&E territory has lighter A/C loads than SCE, but they also have Sacramento and other cities that get very hot in the summer.

Today the NYTimes had another story about the push-back against Net Metering. I was expecting to see stuff about NV or HI, but instead I was surprised to see a disgruntled EV driver from PG&E territory in the story lead. I was going to post this comment in a PG&E thread, but I can't find any thread that is not stale.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/business/energy-environment/why-home-solar-panels-no-longer-pay-in-some-states.html

The story relates how tariff changes can quickly reduce solar payback. In the PG&E case, the On-Peak time has shifted to either 3 to 8pm or 4 to 9pm, with no super-off-peak. Right now I break-even during On-peak 2 to 8, but make my profit during off-peak. A change to 4 to 9pm would hit me hard.

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/time-of-use-base-plan/time-of-use-plan.page#toua
LEAF Ocean Blue SL, "100 % Electric" decals, Delivered June 3, 2011
Sold June 2014 27K miles, 18% capacity loss, 1 bar, 5.0 mi/kWh.
Solar 4.6 KW DC with both string and micro-inverters.

Valdemar
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:24 pm

A larger solar array is not necessarily a bad thing unless it is too large, i.e. one that make one a net producer. Even 0-offset is probably too large, 80-90% offset is the sweet zone. A bigger system can protect from future rate changes, they will happen sooner or later and chances are they will be structured to hurt solar customers. But yes, installers will try to sell you as big of a system as they can. I scaled down the proposal by 1kW and still ended up with $700 credit after first 12 months on TOU-D-A and about 1000kWh net usage. I suspect this year will be worse as the temps are higher, which affects solar output and increases consumption due to AC, not to mention my panels are dirty and I'm lazy to wash them. Also don't forget the degradation, 5% output loss due to the first year burn-in is not unusual.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

smkettner
Posts: 6988
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:17 pm

Total annual consumption 11 mWh

From solar 5 mWh
From SCE 6 mWh

Net annual cost for 6 mWh from SCE TOU-A about $70 with the annual settlement at $29.54
The amount paid is just over one penny per kWh net :D

3 kW system nailed it for me. Payback 5 yrs or 20% return on investment.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

Valdemar
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:27 pm

I wish I could run the A/C only during super off peak.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

smkettner
Posts: 6988
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:16 pm

My air gets some off-peak, mostly super-off-peak and no on-peak.

Runs just about flat out from 1a to 6a chilling the house like a fridge. This allows us to cruise through the day kicking on a bit upstairs at 8pm and strong at 10 pm to get to sleep before the deep chill. We sleep better too and that is worth something. All automatic on the thermostat. Actually creates a natural warming and cooling environment like a natural day. I am certain the air conditioners are more efficient using cooler night air vs heat of the day. And yes wife and kid are home during the day.

Dishwasher runs every night at midnight. Laundry only on weekends as no one seems to get up at 6 am to start the machine. Electric oven is primarily weekends only in Summer.

I wish the fridge compressor would have a timer to minimize cooling during on-peak. Lighting is all LED and CFL.

Best part is getting the A/C cycling discount from 2 to 8 pm when we never run the thing anyway :)
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

SurfHawk
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:43 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Location: Santa Barbara

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:50 pm

Man this is an epic thread for a new Leaf owner on SCE. Considering spending the next 3hrs of my life reading all 70 pages. Was using 14kWh per day before Leaf, first 10 days of ownership is looking like 22-23kWh per day with Leaf. Have a few solar quotes coming in and trying to figure out which TOU plan to switch too. Had thought of the TOU-D-T one but seems most people on this thread on the TOU-D-A one.

I'm probably going to use about 700kWh per month.

36% for the Leaf in the middle of the night.
28% for the pool pump, could run off hours in winter, would like to use in day in summer for our solar water heating system.
36% for basic house. We don't have A/C.

Some quick math if we don't do solar shows $140 bill on Standard plan, $169 on TOU-D-T plan and $130 on TOU-D-B plan. I don't understand the "baseline credit" on the TOU-D-A plan so didn't do the math.
2013 Leaf S w QC - Purchased 10/2016
4kW Solar - Installed 11/2016

Valdemar
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:27 pm

SurfHawk wrote:Man this is an epic thread for a new Leaf owner on SCE. Considering spending the next 3hrs of my life reading all 70 pages. Was using 14kWh per day before Leaf, first 10 days of ownership is looking like 22-23kWh per day with Leaf. Have a few solar quotes coming in and trying to figure out which TOU plan to switch too. Had thought of the TOU-D-T one but seems most people on this thread on the TOU-D-A one.

I'm probably going to use about 700kWh per month.

36% for the Leaf in the middle of the night.
28% for the pool pump, could run off hours in winter, would like to use in day in summer for our solar water heating system.
36% for basic house. We don't have A/C.

Some quick math if we don't do solar shows $140 bill on Standard plan, $169 on TOU-D-T plan and $130 on TOU-D-B plan. I don't understand the "baseline credit" on the TOU-D-A plan so didn't do the math.


TOU-D-A works best with solar if you can shift your main consumption to off-peak due to the larger difference in rates and lower daily charge. As you don't have A/C the TOU-D-A is likely going to work best for you with the Leaf and solar, especially if you can run the pool pump at night even if only during the winter. Chances are you'll be well served by a solar system that only covers 60-70% of your total annual consumption on the TOU-D-A and have a minimal monthly bill.

If you're the analytical type and want to be more precise in sizing your solar system, you can crunch hourly solar production estimates from http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/ against your hourly consumption history for the last 12 months that you can download from SCE corrected for the added usage due to the Leaf and nightly pool pump operation. Need MS Excel or programming skills for this. You will need to understand how NEM works with TOU as well.

Baseline credit w/o solar is simple, you get 10c credit per kWh up to your monthly baseline allocation, check with SCE what that number is for your area. It gets slightly more complicated with solar, as you may end up paying this money to SCE if you system generates more than you consume per pay period.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

smkettner
Posts: 6988
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:36 pm

Baseline credit is easy. It shows as a separate line on your bill. Baseline is different depending on location but maybe 250 to 350 kWh per month. Net usage times the credit (10 cents?) slaps right on your bill.

My net usage is always a credit for both On Peak and Off Peak so in my mind the credit is all for super off peak. This nets to the baseline costs to 1 or 2 cents per kWh. Absolutely amazing. Of course over the baseline you will pay the full super off peak rate of about 12 cents.

Aim to cover 50% of your usage with solar for maximum return on investment.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

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