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mwalsh
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:38 am

Boomer23 wrote:Thanks guys. I'll have to call them next week and have the rate pages up on my computer and have them help me read them properly.


Hmmm....I just looked at the effective date of those rate charts - Thursday, June 1st. My posting was from Sunday, June 4th, and some of the rates do look different. I wonder if some of the rates have changed and the new rates were posted to the web AFTER I pulled the old rates?

But I still don't get the figures they told you from the new rate sheets, so I might be reading them wrong.
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tbleakne
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:16 pm

mwalsh wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:Thanks guys. I'll have to call them next week and have the rate pages up on my computer and have them help me read them properly.


Hmmm....I just looked at the effective date of those rate charts - Thursday, June 1st. My posting was from Sunday, June 4th, and some of the rates do look different. I wonder if some of the rates have changed and the new rates were posted to the web AFTER I pulled the old rates?

But I still don't get the figures they told you from the new rate sheets, so I might be reading them wrong.


If you look at the date on the signature page of the tariff, it is really recent (early July , 2010 ?). I asked about the apparent rise in rates for the EV super-off-peak (Midnight to 6 AM) and I was told yes, there was an increase. As I read the tariff, you have to add the "distribution" price to the "generation" price, and the latter is a little indefinite because it depends upon how much is supplied by DWP wholesale to SCE.

The total I got for summer super-off-peak was 12cents/kwh. The old rate was 8cents, quite a difference.
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tbleakne
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:35 pm

How far has anyone else got with actually installing the SECOND METER to get the TOU EV rate?

I have asked several electricians, including the one that did my Nissan (Aerovironment) assessment, and no one had done it or knew for sure. Apparently this option is an exception to the normal rule that a residential house can only have one meter. The SCE service planner told me that the EV program is run by the same department that does solar and that was not his department.

On my latest call to SCE the person I spoke to read from a document she had just received (Aug 12) that discussed "second-meter adaptor" as well as "second-meter." I asked whether she could send me that document but she said it was internal only. She and I tried to find it on the web site during the call but it was not there.

Aug 13 I met with another electrician who told me "second-meter adapters" were common on commercial installations to sub-meter individual tenants. He told me if it was allowed it could save me money on installation. The idea is that the primary meter reads the total consumed, your house + the car charger, and the TOU meter hooked to the adaptor measures just the car charger. Then they could subtract the car charger reading from the total and apply the different rates. This way the utility lead-in line does not have to be connected to both meters.

Since the person was reading to me from a document it was not really clear to me - perhaps the adaptor is not what we want.
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:37 pm

My interest in the TOU meter is that I've heard that the wiring to the EVSE will go from the TOU meter to the EVSE and not have to connect to the main panel at all. That could mean that I wouldn't have to add breakers to my main panel, which is currently crowded.

Can anyone shed any light on whether my thinking is on target or not?
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garygid
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:16 am

This is the "two-meter adapter" that SDG&E apparently supplies, which includes a 40-amp breaker BEFORE your over-crowded service panel. It is "free" from SDG&E, but currently requires an extra "fee" of a bit over $9 extra per month.

Many large PG&E cities do not allow the 2nd meter.

SCE rules ... unknown, sorry.
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tbleakne
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:35 pm

garygid wrote:This is the "two-meter adapter" that SDG&E apparently supplies, which includes a 40-amp breaker BEFORE your over-crowded service panel. It is "free" from SDG&E, but currently requires an extra "fee" of a bit over $9 extra per month.

Many large PG&E cities do not allow the 2nd meter.

SCE rules ... unknown, sorry.


SCE people on the phone have told me they are not charging anything for the second meter, either at installation or monthly. I believe they used to charge $ 3 or so per month but not now, at least for the EV program.

I agree for folks like garygid, with a crowded main service panel, a completely separate free second meter panel with a single 40-amp breaker would be the way to go. In my case, I want to get a new panel to support remodeling, and the "two-meter adapter" might be simpler for me.

A completely separate meter means that SCE must approve the details of how they are both connected to the lead-in, because wiring before the meters is "theirs." As I understand things, I pay my electrician to install everything, and SCE just comes out to connect it, but I can't get any detailed guidance for the electrician to follow.

I will ask my local city inspector. The SCE service planner, when he visited, told me that all the second meter installations that he had seen (for other purposes, not EV) were assigned a separate address (-A, -B etc). If that satisfies both the city and SCE, that should work.
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garygid
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:03 pm

My "understanding" from pitures and descriptons:

To use the 2-meter adapter, there is no PU-side wiring required.

The current meter is pulled out, the adapter pressed into the same contacts and mounts on the same meter-hole, and the original meter pushes pack on in the same place, just an inch or so further out. The new meter is right alongside the original meter.

If SDG&E eliminated the $9/month fee (and had attractive EV chaging pricing), this "adapter" might be the way for me to install ... but I also have the PV (over) generation to consider.
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:53 pm

Just my 2 cents. I have 2 meters now and I am on TOU with my solar system. I get a bill with everything itemized.
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tbleakne
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:47 pm

Gonewild wrote:Just my 2 cents. I have 2 meters now and I am on TOU with my solar system. I get a bill with everything itemized.


This is good helpful news, that you have a second meter. SCE told me I would not need a second meter just to add solar because main meters can now measure power flow separately for both directions (net consume or net generate). If your second meter was installed for the solar, perhaps it was installed some years ago ? If instead you are saying your second meter was installed recently for your EV charging port that is exactly what I am trying to do now.

In either case I would be very interested in any details you can recall of how your electrician worked with SCE and how the two meters are hooked up so I can share that with my electrician.
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:39 pm

tbleakne, member Gonewild is located in Arizona and so does not have SCE.

However, I saw the following post from member Juiced back in June:

Juiced:
Last year we had a Southern California Edison TOU (time of use) meter installed to service our MINI E. This worked great because we were maxed out on the existing house meter capacity. The TOU meter piggy backs on the existing meter and takes power from the grid BEFORE the existing main panel. You get an additional 40 amp service without a major panel upgrade. A 40 amp disconnect is required by code near the TOU meter along with a second one near the charging unit if it is more than a certain distance away. SCE off-peak charging hours are 9:00pm to 12:00 noon

Perhaps he would be a good source for how he worked with SCE

I'll send him a private message (PM). I'll include you as well, if I can.
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