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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:16 am

Member Juiced kindly and rapidly responded to my PM about how he got the TOU meter from SCE. Text of his message follows:


Boomer23
I contacted SCE and requested a TOU meter. SCE sent out a "service planner" to assess the loads required by the EV charger and the service conditions in the neighborhood. In our case they upgraded the wire size serving the house and added a transformer so the power draw during charging would not affect the neighboring homes. SCE paid for these upgrades. SCE then installed the TOU meter, which physically piggy backs on to the existing meter. There was no charge for TOU meter and installation.

Everything downstream from the TOU meter is your responsibility. The TOU meter draws power upstream from the existing meter and requires a service disconnect immediately next to the TOU meter. The size and capacity of the service disconnect depends on the loads drawn by the EV charger. We have a 40 Amp disconnect at the TOU meter and another 40 Amp disconnect at the charger location, which is about 40 feet away in the garage. We hired an electrician to take care of all of the work beyond the TOU install. No permit is required for the TOU meter, however, a building permit is required for the wiring past the TOU meter and an inspector from your local jurisdiction will inspect the installation.

The latest number I have for contacting the SCE customer service center is (800) 239-2685

Good luck, you will really enjoy electric motoring!

Sent: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:19 am
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drees
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:53 am

Boomer23 wrote:I contacted SCE and requested a TOU meter. SCE sent out a "service planner" to assess the loads required by the EV charger and the service conditions in the neighborhood. In our case they upgraded the wire size serving the house and added a transformer so the power draw during charging would not affect the neighboring homes. SCE paid for these upgrades. SCE then installed the TOU meter, which physically piggy backs on to the existing meter. There was no charge for TOU meter and installation.

Wow - how undersized is the neighborhood wiring that adding a single house with a 40A draw would require the local transformer to be upgraded? Just being overly cautious?
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evnow
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:56 am

drees wrote:Wow - how undersized is the neighborhood wiring that adding a single house with a 40A draw would require the local transformer to be upgraded? Just being overly cautious?


The electrification coalition says a lot of neighbourhood transformers would need to be upgraded. They will consider an EV as an additional house. Since a lot of the transformers are old & maxed out, they will upgrade it - esp if they think the area is likely to see other EV owned houses as well.
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garygid
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:49 pm

For now, it is really only a 15-amp (or 16) load on a 40-amp breaker.

Later, it might become a 30-amp (or 32) load.
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:43 pm

Weelll, I called SCE today thanks to Juiced and tbleakne and requested a service provider to come out and evaluate my service for a TOU meter. I'll hear back about that in about 5 days, they say.

I also asked for an updated listing of rates. Actually, I asked them to help me to decipher the rate charts that they have on their web site, but they really couldn't do that because it would get too complicated, with some positive and negative numbers. I just have to say that if they can't help us to decipher what they post for public guidance on their web site, then their posted rate sheets are TOO COMPLEX.

Anyway, I got the following rates from the SCE EV helpline. These appear to differ from what I was given last week, so I'm rather dismayed and still confused. But if I can believe these rates, the Super Off Peak rates for the TOU D-T-EV rate schedule are really enticing at $.09 for tier 1 as compared to the best rates on the TOU EV-1 rates at $.16. However, I don't think that these rates are available if you go with a TOU meter. That's a problem for me because I am hoping to avoid modifying or updating my main panel by adding a TOU meter. So I'll have to do a cost-benefit analysis for my specific situation, taking into account our Solar PV system with excess production.

TOU EV-1 Domestic Time-of-Use Electric Vehicle Charging - Uses separate Time of Use Meter
Summer On Peak: $0.24
...........Off Peak: 0.16
Winter On Peak: 0.18
.........Off Peak: 0.16

TOU-D-TEV Time-of-Use Domestic Tiered Electric Vehicle Charging - Uses a single meter for entire house
Summer On Peak, Tier 1: $0.21
......................Tier 2: 0.59
...........Off Peak, Tier 1: 0.12
......................Tier 2: 0.26
..Super Off-Peak, Tier 1: 0.09
......................Tier 2: 0.16
Winter On Peak,...Tier 1: 0.12
......................Tier 2: 0.26
..........Off Peak, Tier 1: 0.11
......................Tier 2: 0.16
..Super Off-Peak, Tier 1: 0.09
.......................Tier 2: 0.16


So the math may come out something like this:

First 5,000 miles of EV driving per year: Free due to 1700 kWh of solar PV production excess to household usage.

Second 5,000 miles of EV driving per year: 1700 kWh @ either $0.09 or $0.16 per kWh.

Variance between the two rates is $0.07 times 1700 kWh = $119 more per year to use the TOU meter. But I avoid spending $3,000 or more to upgrade my main panel.

I can drive for 25 years on the TOU meter T EV-1 rate before I pay off a $3,000 panel upgrade.
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mwalsh
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:13 pm

Boomer23 wrote:Anyway, I got the following rates from the SCE EV helpline. These appear to differ from what I was given last week, so I'm rather dismayed and still confused.


Well, so long as the rates don't get any worse. I have done a rather exhaustive analysis of what my energy costs will be based on the rates I figured, so color me confounded and frustrated on that front. :? :lol:
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:47 pm

mwalsh wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:Anyway, I got the following rates from the SCE EV helpline. These appear to differ from what I was given last week, so I'm rather dismayed and still confused.


Well, so long as the rates don't get any worse. I have done a rather exhaustive analysis of what my energy costs will be based on the rates I figured, so color me confounded and frustrated on that front. :? :lol:


I'd love to get them to publish, in print, with effective dates, the rate information in a form similar to the way you and I have presented it. That doesn't seem too much to ask.
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:33 pm

I just got off the phone with the SCE PEV help line.

Confirmed the news that tbleakne sent my by PM last Friday that SCE is discontinuing approval of TOU meters for EV use. The reason given was at least partially due to overheating, I assume caused by charging the EV. Fellow member Juiced says that he's been using such a setup to charge his Mini E for a year and he hasn't reported any trouble.

Anyway, I will be going with the TOU-D-T rate for now, so that I get the benefit of generating net solar PV power to the grid during peak times and then I'll transition to the equivalent rate for EV charging, TOU-D-T-EV, once I get the Leaf.

I was going to post the rates that she quoted me for the two rate plans, but I've found a discrepancy compared to the rate sheet that I see online, so I recommend that you call yourself to get a satisfactory answer. Just understand that the rates are the sum of the column listed as "Delivery Service Total" AND a Generation rate that is a varying mix of power from DWP and the power from other sources. So the total doesn't appear to be a fixed figure, but will vary per billing period.

Eternal thanks to tbleakne for updating my thought process on which rates work best for me and for helping me to understand SCE's posted rate sheets.
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:08 am

I got an email about the EV Rate Assistant Tool from SCE maybe a week ago. Of course, it didn't work, so I didn't bother telling you about it. However, it looks like it does work now, so give it a try:

http://www.sce.com/PowerandEnvironment/ ... m?from=pev

Not particularly useful for those with PV Systems, unless you go negative on your usage (which I haven't tried yet, so I don't know if it would work).

Image
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Heated seats.
GT-R map lamp lenses.
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:41 am

I tried it, too, Michael. Not at all impressed.

I do have negative net daily usage as far as what SCE sees, and it wouldn't accept negative numbers. So I entered my actual total consumption number from last year's average, about 19 kWh. The web site told me that I'd be better off with a TOU second meter plan. But we were told a month ago that they are not offering the TOU meters.

I will probably call them in the next day or so, just to get an update on the status of that and the status of my request to go to a TOU rate even before I get the Leaf, just to take advantage of our high solar production during peak hours.

When is your solar PV system going in?
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