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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:15 pm

No comment has been posted here yet, so I thought I'd commemorate a victory at the CPUC yesterday.

I was surprised that the vote was a so close at 3-2 to finally approve a version of the PUC proposal that was provisionally approved in December.

With this decision, retail net metering was extended for the so-called NEM 2.0 period which begins at different times in the next year for each of the three large IOUs, but no later than July 2017.

This is a huge victory for the residential solar movement in California and across the country, since this decision was being watched closely.

The decision means that retail net metering will be retained for the next generation of home solar installations, with minor modifications. There will be small "non-bypassable" charges of between 2 and 4 cents per kWh (I'm not sure which) of all power pulled from the utility (I believe that is all utility power, not just net power after subtracting home generated power) that the utilities were able to justify being needed to help cover the costs of various programs and grid maintenance. In addition, newly installed systems will require a one-time hookup fee of up to $150, and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.

All told, though, the agreed upon package will maintain almost all of the benefits that current residential solar customers enjoy, and combined with lower panel costs and the rather unexpected re-approval by Congress of the Federal solar Investment Tax Credit of 30%, the growth of residential solar in the state should continue to gain momentum.

However, the PUC scheduled another examination of residential solar rates in 2019, so we'll see what happens in three years.

The two commissioners who voted no on the proposal are said to have felt that some modifications added late in the rule writing process went too far in the direction of helping the solar proponents, whom they thought were already getting a great deal in the earlier version.
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smkettner
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:24 pm

Boomer23 wrote:..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.

Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.
Year to date 7 months (3kW DC solar)
This year 4783 net usage, cost $153.20 for 3.20 cents per used kWh.
Prior year 4194 net usage, cost $134.82 for 3.21 cents per used kWh.

Minimum for schedule D IIRC is 15 cents per kWh.
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Boomer23
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:59 pm

smkettner wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.

Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.
Year to date 7 months (3kW DC solar)
This year 4783 net usage, cost $153.20 for 3.20 cents per used kWh.
Prior year 4194 net usage, cost $134.82 for 3.21 cents per used kWh.

Minimum for schedule D IIRC is 15 cents per kWh.


Completely agree. For the same reasons, I haven't had to pay an electric bill for 9 years, aside from a buck or two a month.
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drees
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:05 am

smkettner wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.

Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.

You haven't seen the proposed TOU plans yet.

See what I posted the other day that SDG&E is proposing for TOU time periods.

The short version is that peak rates will be 4pm-9pm year round. There is not much sun left in that time of day. In the winter, it's a tiny fraction. In the summer, it's maybe 15-25%.
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smkettner
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:52 am

Yes 6 hours of SOP is a bit short and Peak goes an hour longer into the dark than SCE. Still if you are selling solar all day and buy most at night as I do it should be fine. In summer when it is hot my air conditioner runs near continuous from 12a to 6a and off until 8p the next night.

Beware as the solar march continues... on-peak will push well into the night and SOP will be mid-day.
Batteries will be common for both utilities and consumers to play the game properly..
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tbleakne
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:58 am

drees wrote:
smkettner wrote:
Boomer23 wrote:..... and new system owners will have no choice but to go on time of use rate plans.

Nothing could be better than TOU for solar & EV.

You haven't seen the proposed TOU plans yet.

See what I posted the other day that SDG&E is proposing for TOU time periods.

The short version is that peak rates will be 4pm-9pm year round. There is not much sun left in that time of day. In the winter, it's a tiny fraction. In the summer, it's maybe 15-25%.

Ouch, this would hurt me. Tree shade shuts most of my array down by 4 pm most of the year, and in the summer I am often still running the A/C at 9pm. Presently SCE weekday on-peak runs 2pm to 8pm, but SCE could decide to copy SD&G any time. Thanks for cross post.

Like Boomer23, I am grateful that CPUC voted as they did, and I am also surprised that the vote was so close. If the nationwide attack on Net Metering can force this close a vote in California, it indicates the utility mindset is getting a lot of traction. The utilities' sharp comments after the vote suggest they are quite upset and are not going to give up.

My Jan bill is the end of my true-up period. My binge on A/C last Aug and Sept, when I was having sleep problems, dug me a hole that I was not quite able to climb out of. For the first time I actually owe a net $6.98 for the 12 months, but considering I imported a net total of 4,951 kWh more than I produced for the year, that is still a pretty good deal, $.0014/kWh, 1/7 of a cent. A very good TOU profit.

My January bill also reports a change in SCE Winter TOU rates effective Jan 1, 2016.
New rates
xxxxxx Del Gen Total
xOnPk .14 .14 .28
xOffPk .14 .14 .28
SOffPk .08 .04 .12

Note that the OnPk and OffPk total rates are virtually the same for the 8 months of EV winter. Therefor the time that OnPk starts and stops matters only in the Summer, but that is where the action is with higher prices for On Peak.

OnPk Delivery went up from .11 to .14, OnPk Gen went down from .24 to .14.

I suggest we could argue that the higher delivery price shows that they are assigning more value to our distributed power. If our power goes at most through only our local neighborhood transformer before it finds a net consumer, the cost of using that very small fraction of the grid should be a small fraction of the total distribution value back to the big generators. Unfortunately I don't know what are the relative costs of the local vs total grid infrastructure.

In HI, the much higher solar penetration often results in reverse power flow for the full 100 plus house circuit and through the larger substation transformer supplying your circuit. At that point the costs of distributing your solar generation have gone up, but I don't know how much.
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GregH
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:58 pm

I just got a letter from SCEdison proposing that I move from my current TOU-D-T plan to their TOU-D-A plan. They claim my $307 bill last year would have gone down to $209 but when I look at the difference in the rates it looks like BS to me.

A bit of background.. I've got an ancient 2.4kW array which on a good day puts out 1.5-1.8kW at peak. It's a 48V battery system currently served by a 5kWh lithium pack. We've got 4 people in the house and my Leaf is on a 2nd meter (TOU-EV-1).

Most months we're under the 130% baseline although August and September went a good way over thanks to AC.

The TOU-D-A would move my peak from 12-6 to 2-8... I can certainly understand why they want me to do this as the 6-8 peak is now their big problem as all the solar in CA has diminished the afternoon peak.... But I don't see how this is good for me.

If we were closer to baseline or under for total consumption and I had a larger battery system I could buy up all the power at their new super off peak rate but it's still not clear if this would be a big benefit (not to mention the extra stress on my 15 year old inverter (Xantrex/Trace 4048)). The normal off peak in the late morning and late evening would go from $0.16 to $0.21 (winter assuming 160% baseline), $0.14 to $0.20 (winter assuming 130% baseline), $0.16 to $0.24 (summer assuming 160% baseline), $0.14 to $0.23 (summer assuming 130% baseline)..

Yes the super off peak 10pm to 8am is really cheap especially if most is under baseline... but I don't think I'd get much from that unless I go much bigger on the battery and inverter.

Does $0.12 super off peak with a -$0.11 baseline credit mean all the super off peak power under the baseline is $0.01???

Am I reading this right?
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Valdemar
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:46 pm

You get the credit on "net" consumption up to baseline. If all of it happens during sop and is below baseline so yes it is one penny per kWh.
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smkettner
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:19 pm

GregH wrote:Does $0.12 super off peak with a -$0.11 baseline credit mean all the super off peak power under the baseline is $0.01???

Am I reading this right?
YES :D

I think you will do fine with TOU-A

You will start to run the dish washer SOP by using the delay timer. Do a load of laundry from 7a to 8a etc.
Keep the air at a modest level until 8p and then let it work a bit so you can sleep well.

Adjust a few things in your life and this pays off handsomely. Try it for a year.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

GregH
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Re: Official Southern California Edison thread

Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:48 am

Ok, that's pretty cool... but I'd still be paying more from 8pm to 10pm on D-A than D-T..
I guess I'm just looking at this the wrong way.. The 10pm to 8am electricity is basically free.. Even if I go over baseline it's only $0.12 beyond that.
I suppose if I set my inverter to charge the batteries from 10pm to 8am then ran on battery + PV for the day... somehow I don't think I'd make it to 10pm though.. especially in the months where AC is used (although I guess much of that can be moved to 10pm).

So dumb question on the baseline credit..
If my baseline was 300kWh and used 400kWh, how would that apply if I:
A. used 400kWh SOP and 0kWh normal
B. used 200kWh SOP and 200kWh normal.
C. used 350kWh SOP and 50kWh normal.

?

thanks
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

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